God save the Queen !

[ahinton]

I'm sure she cares deeply about them

So what prompted you to write that she'd "rather be walking her dogs and riding a horse than contemplating the car crash lives of her children" then? Anyway, I can't quite imagine that she, slouch or no slouch, could walk dogs while riding a horse - at least not in her 90th year...

[MrGongGong]

So what prompted you to write that she'd "rather be walking her dogs and riding a horse than contemplating the car crash lives of her children" then? Anyway, I can't quite imagine that she, slouch or no slouch, could walk dogs while riding a horse - at least not in her 90th year...

It's only the impression (which could be wrong) that I got

[jean]

I had to make a Corbynesque decision this evening, because since vasily came, we have had the National Anthem at RLPO concerte - but only at the beginning of the season.

A few people remained seated. A couple behind me actually sang the words, which was not required (there was no choir on this occasion).

In an attempt to make the piece more interesting, the programme note read:

The National Anthem

It is thought that the first performance of the National Anthem, with the melody and words more or less as
they are today, was in 1745. Thomas Arne (1710-78) is given credit for standardising the words and music at
this time, and he is sometimes cited as the composer of the melody. However, the melody itself draws on
elements of earlier tunes, including music by John Bull (1563-1628) and Henry Purcell (1659-95), while
Handel used a variant of the tune in the Sarabande of his Suite No.4 in E minor, composed before 1720.
Other theories about its origin abound, including a widespread 19th-century belief that an old Scots carol,
‘Remember O Thou Man’, was the source of the tune.
The words go back much further: as early as 1545, the phrase ‘God save the King’ and its response ‘Long to
reign over us’ were watchwords of the Royal Navy, according to the research of Percy Scholes. Many
variants exist, with verses written to emphasise a particular political standpoint – verses were written in
1745 to rally support both for and against the Jacobite Rising – or to commemorate an event.

I was surprised that anyone had ever associated it with the beautiful Remember O Thou Man, unless that comes with another tune I don't know.

[ahinton]

I had to make a Corbynesque decision this evening, because since vasily came, we have had the National Anthem at RLPO concerte - but only at the beginning of the season.

A few people remained seated. A couple behind me actually sang the words, which was not required (there was no choir on this occasion).

In an attempt to make the piece more interesting, the programme note read:



I was surprised that anyone had ever associated it with the beautiful Remember O Thou Man, unless that comes with another tune I don't know.

Well, one might suppose that it acquires at least temporary respectability and acceptability when in company with bona fide musicological research on its history.

But, far more importantly, you didn't tell us what your Corbyneque decision was!...

[jean]

I stood. Had I been required to sing, I probably wouldn't have.

There was a time when I would not even have stood. Almost my first act of teenage rebellion was to remain seated when my parents rose solemnly to their feet in our sitting room whenever the thing was played on the radio, which happened much more frequently in the 1950s.

What made me revert to standing, in public anyway, was living in Poland, where not standing during the National Anthem* would have appeared highly disrespectful - visiting foreigners did that sometimes, and it did not look good. And then I thought, if I stand for theirs, why not for mine, even if the words are a bit off?

* or Gaude Mater Polonia, which was played as often and bore an even greater emotional charge.

[P. G. Tipps]

'Gaude Mater Polonia ...'

It certainly looks like politically-correct sexism has been the default social practice in Poland for centuries ...

[ahinton]

I stood. Had I been required to sing, I probably wouldn't have.

There was a time when I would not even have stood. Almost my first act of teenage rebellion was to remain seated when my parents rose solemnly to their feet in our sitting room whenever the thing was played on the radio, which happened much more frequently in the 1950s.

What made me revert to standing, in public anyway, was living in Poland, where not standing during the National Anthem* would have appeared highly disrespectful - visiting foreigners did that sometimes, and it did not look good. And then I thought, if I stand for theirs, why not for mine, even if the words are a bit off?

* or Gaude Mater Polonia, which was played as often and bore an even greater emotional charge.

Thanks for that; that's very clear.

[jean]

I'm still puzzling about Remember O thou man:

The rhythm is right, but there's one line too many.