God save the Queen !

[P. G. Tipps]

It can indeed - and things are not always what they seem, even to you, Mr Tea-strainer! I have no idea how you "judge" anyone's posts so cannot comment on how you might arrive at any of your conclusions. I admit that my French is terrible (so sorry, FF) but I'm unaware that I have revealed this fact in anything that I've posted here.

It is not myself who 'judges' some of your posts but rather some of your posts which judge themselves, ahinton ...

[Flosshilde]

Very good, Flossie ... as it happens that song also brings back a few embarrassing memories about some youthful and excruciatingly-clumsy girl-chasing attempts ...

Hmm - photos of you in flares coming up?

[P. G. Tipps]

Hmm - photos of you in flares coming up?

Wrong decade, Flossie!

In any case, my bottom-half was much more sophisticated in those bygone days of yore ...

[Pabmusic]

... aw, go on, remind us - what is our National Flag (if we have one... )?

If we expect a 'national' flag to be adopted by Parliament or at least approved by the government, then we don't have one. The Union Flag is (apparently) part of the Royal Prerogative, designed originally to identify James' navy (at a time when the monarchies of England and Scotland had been merged, but when the countries had not). George V gave permission for it to be used on government buildings. And that's that.

Of course, it is used as if it's a national flag, and no 'authority' seems to mind, but it's still a long way from being 'official'.

[P. G. Tipps]

If we expect a 'national' flag to be adopted by Parliament or at least approved by the government, then we don't have one. The Union Flag is (apparently) part of the Royal Prerogative, designed originally to identify James' navy (at a time when the monarchies of England and Scotland had been merged, but when the countries had not). George V gave permission for it to be used on government buildings. And that's that.

Of course, it is used as if it's a national flag, and no 'authority' seems to mind, but it's still a long way from being 'official'.

All that sounds credibly 'British' doesn't it ... ?

Not even an official written constitution, for goodness sake. And, as has been pointed out before in other places, some very nasty people often flaunt the Union Flag and sing God Save The Queen.

We don't like the state and politicians in general dictating what we should believe and how we should behave. Makes me proud to be British.

God Bless Ma'am & Jeremy Corbyn, I say ... long may there be a place for both.

[BBMmk2]

There should be a place for both, imo.

I think the actual name of the union jack, can only be used if it's hoisted on a Royal navy ship?

[Pabmusic]

There should be a place for both, imo.

I think the actual name of the union jack, can only be used if it's hoisted on a Royal navy ship?

I would be better to say that, when flown from the jack staff, it's the Union Jack. The jack staff is the small flagpole in the bow of the ship.

[BBMmk2]

I would be better to say that, when flown from the jack staff, it's the Union Jack. The jack staff is the small flagpole in the bow of the ship.

Ah yes, that's what I was trying to think of!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zsbvtgOoaU

This how it should be done - in Sir David Willcocks' arrangement.



Elgar's version is disappointingly dull:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yNNYTbJD1o

[Pabmusic]

...Elgar's version is disappointingly dull:...

Yes indeed. Elgar always fell short with exclusively patriotic works (Empire March??).

I still rather like the Prussian, later Imperial German anthem, Heil dir im Siegerkranz. The Germans abandoned it in 1918.

I know I posted it earlier, but many missed it, I suspect:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVWnRt9BarU

It was also the anthem of Bavaria (Heil, unser Koenig, Heil!), Brunswick, Hanover, Saxony, Weimar, Wurttemburg, Switzerland and Norway. It's still the anthem of Liechtenstein.

[jean]

Looking for something else entirely, I found this:

But that is all one, though it does rather strike you in England how the English, incapable of singing as they are, always maintain in the most ridiculous way that they lead all other nations in this as in other things...In fact the strong desire to be musical seems even to extend to the animal world in England. Beneath my window a snow-white donkey was grazing on the site of the bleachery...The grace which the dear animal displayed as it wandered through the flowers or looked up to the morning sky had put the idea into my head that it must conceal some special quality. For a long time I could not make my mind up on this question; then one day as the eldest son was just abusing his piano to the point of severe alteration I was standing at the window, counting how often he repeated ''God save the Queen!'', finally crying in extreme wrath: ''A hundred and one times, already! It is too much! No, indeed, there is a limit to everything!'' – when a powerful baritone voice interrupted me. I leaped up appalled. ''God knows, I am mistaken, no, one hundred and two times!'' But then I saw how ignominiously I was deceived; it was the white donkey, stirred by the musical furor, expressing its loyal sentiments in song that sounded for all the world like ''God save - '', which was still droning on in my ears. (from: ''England, eine Reise ins Innere des Landes'', Kölnische Zeitung circa 1843, later published in a book)

[Gordon]

Hm, Das Land Ohne Musik. I'm sure that both most recent HMQs have heard some strange versions in their times and travels but a singing Donkey must Esel-ly be among the most bizarre!! There was that Brian May thing from the roof of BH that must have had our QE wondering....which Queen he meant.

[Serial_Apologist]

Hm, Das Land Ohne Musik. I'm sure that both most recent HMQs have heard some strange versions in their times and travels but a singing Donkey must Esel-ly be among the most bizarre!! There was that Brian May thing from the roof of BH that must have had our QE wondering....which Queen he meant.

Asinine, in fact.

[BBMmk2]

Gordon Jacob's arrangement is good too. I am sure it was similar to the YouTube version?

[Once Was 4]

Gordon Jacob's arrangement is good too. I am sure it was similar to the YouTube version?

At the risk of flogging a dying horse, this post reminded me of a story told by a colleague on small-time gigs around Yorkshire (which is what I mainly do now at the very end of my career). He was, many years ago, a member of the Band of the Royal Signals whose MD (later to become Director of Music to the British Army) did a new arrangement of the National Anthem in the key of A flat major. They played it in the Mall once; and within minutes an equerry appeared with a note which he handed to the bandmaster. This said "Her Majesty has never heard the National Anthem played in the key of A flat before and trusts that she will never do so again!" Apparently the Queen has perfect pitch.

Mind you, when I wer' a lad, just starting out on a professional career, the ability to busk 'Queen in G' was an essential part of one's skill-set. One of our regional orchestras played the anthem in B flat (military style) for a bit. Any bumptious young player depping there for the first time and who had got too big for their boots in the rehearsal was soon reduced to size as they would fail to warn the person concerned who would thus crash in a minor third out. These days it is rare to play the anthem in a concert and when one does, music is usually provided. On the day that the Queen Mother died Opera North were in Sheffield: a message quickly went round the pit just before the show started - "we will be playing the National Anthem just before curtain up". Some of the younger players just stood in respectful silence as they had never had to busk the anthem before.

Which reminds me that, certainly in Manchester during the 60s and 70s, it was the norm for the horns to blast out what some people called the 'falling 7th' two bars before the end (the notes D, C sharp and C for horns in F so G, F sharp and F concert pitch). This was once described by a critic as a 'signal of bovine distress' but was known by the older Manchester players as the 'Moss Side Ending' (Moss Side being a notorious area in Manchester). I often wondered where this came from. Possibly from the teacher of the old school Manchester players - Otto Paersch - who lived in Moss Side. Does anybody have an answer to this (Tony?)