God save the Queen !

[ahinton]

There are examples of anthems that are/were only instrumental, not sung - East Germany did so for the latter part of its existence, reason being, among other things, that the text expressed a wish for unifying Germany, which was at that point no longer an intention of the GDR.

True as that is, not only are such examples very much the exception but also what we're discussion here (I think!) is the singing of National Anthems; I rather doubt that many would advocate solving this "problem" by replacing worded anthems with wordless ones.

To have no anthem at all would probably feel a bit awkward at international sporting events.

But would it really, though? For example, You'll never walk alone's not a National Anthem, but...

Also, there are diplomatic traditions to greet visiting dignitaries with their anthem, that too might be a bit weird.

Traditions don't have to be upheld forever just because they're regarded as such; if, for example, the UK monarchy were to disappear, the UK National Anthem would have to change, which would not be the case were it not for its references to the reigning monarch.

Perhaps we should do away with words and have a Humming Chorus version with a rousing tum-ti-tum tune that people can make their own words for

Oh, please, no! Apart from the problems that would arise from no two people making up the same words to it, you're leading the solution back into Archers territory, which God or whomsoever might substitute for Him (as the legal eagles would have it) forbid!

[ahinton]

What is the consequence of women agreeing that they DO feel 'included'? There seem to be more men feeling it definitely excludes them If you are acquainted with several languages which have (masculine) forms which imply both male and female you tend to be less bothered. Perhaps?

By the way, we used to sing the Parry setting of Richard II's 'sceptred isle' speech - all about royalty and Christian service - but also about sister nations. And the 'seat of Mars' refers to the 'fortress' which will defend itself from war (and infection, apparently).

Yes, indeed - and there are other examples such as terms like "mothership", the long ingrained habit of referring to naval vessels as "she", expressions like "the mother of all..." and so on.

[ahinton]

Unlike others here, I couldn't possibly comment ....

Betcha could, then! I suspect that you mean that you will nevertheless desist from so doing...

[ahinton]

And for those that want to point out that the word was 'brothers' - same applies: it can mean 'members', especially when referring to co-religionists

...and to fellow trade unionists...

[ahinton]

English rugby crowds are happier with a sombre negro spiritual about swinging low [why not swinging high]!!

...or even just swinging! Mind you, it being the first time I can ever recall reading the "n" word in the context of English rugby crowds in a thread about singing the UK National Anthem and written by someone who goes on to say that any new UK National Anthem would have to be "fully PC"(!), I might counsel you as to the possible risk that FF might raise her moderatorial eyebrows thereat...

[ahinton]

Jerusalem is still widely viewed as the top choice for a replacement. The one problem, its reference to only one part of the UK, could be solved I suppose by re-wording that particular line: "In our just green and pleasant land".

I thought that it was "In England's green unpleasant land", but maybe I'm going a little deaf in my old age. A second problem, surely, would be that the notion of the rebuilding Jerusalem in another location would send all manner of risky messages to all sorts of people in the Middle East with different agendas...

[ahinton]

I didn't think Jeremy was responsible for that?

You might be surprised at some of the things that Mr Clarkson has done besides presenting the fashion programme Top Gear and having punch-ups with producers!

[ahinton]

What a shame! I quite like the idea that JC came over to found the Glastonbury Festival.

I'd not imagined this particular JC as being a stick-in-the-mud.

By the way, sorry for so many posts in succession; my only excuse is that i'm not sure how to create a post unsing quotes from multiple previous ones.

Oh - P.S. QEII has long been well known for ensuring that she is well informed; what risk does anyone suppose there to be that she reads this thread (or has someone do it on her behalf and convey his/her findings to her)?

[gurnemanz]

Jerusalem is still widely viewed as the top choice for a replacement. The one problem, its reference to only one part of the UK, could be solved I suppose by re-wording that particular line: "In our just green and pleasant land".

Including the word "green" could lead to accusations of party bias.

Dodgy usage: Starting a sentence with "and".
"builded"??

[Demetrius]

But would it really, though? For example, You'll never walk alone's not a National Anthem, but...


[...]

Oh, please, no! Apart from the problems that would arise from no two people making up the same words to it, you're leading the solution back into Archers territory, which God or whomsoever might substitute for Him (as the legal eagles would have it) forbid!

Didn't mean the fan sing-along along with sporting events. Imagine a British long distance runner or whatever winning 10000 m at Olympia. The presentation ceremony is sandwiched in between two others, say for shotput and ... javelin throwing. So first we have the russian anthem for the shotput winner, at the polish one for the javelin one, and inbetween the Brit watches in total silence as they pull up the flag.
Bit awkward.
With diplomatic traditions I meant the same. It's not so much leaving out the traditions as it is leaving them out for only one country that feels weird.

Unless my evil side took over the humming stuff wasn't my suggestion as I'm not particularly into humming.

[ahinton]

Didn't mean the fan sing-along along with sporting events. Imagine a British long distance runner or whatever winning 10000 m at Olympia. The presentation ceremony is sandwiched in between two others, say for shotput and ... javelin throwing. So first we have the russian anthem for the shotput winner, at the polish one for the javelin one, and inbetween the Brit watches in total silence as they pull up the flag.
Bit awkward.
With diplomatic traditions I meant the same. It's not so much leaving out the traditions as it is leaving them out for only one country that feels weird.

All the more reason, then, to encourage the universal abandonment of National Anthems, given the risk that, when more than one such is performed at any major public event, an impressiopn be created that each country whose anthem is so performed could be taken as seeking to assert its superiority over the others, overtly/intentionally or otherwise.

Unless my evil side took over the humming stuff wasn't my suggestion as I'm not particularly into humming.

So you'd not advocate that Australia adopt Arrival platform humlet as its National Anthem, then?...

[pastoralguy]

I was thinking of the wonderful recording of Smetana's Ma Vlast which was recorded in 1939 in Nazi occupied Prague by Talich. During the prolonged applause, and in the presence of the Nazis soldiers, the audience start singing the Czech national anthem. One of the most moving moments ever committed to disc.

[Demetrius]

So you'd not advocate that Australia adopt Arrival platform humlet as its National Anthem, then?...

I don't think so, no. You could ask Gordon what he thinks about that idea.

[Gordon]

...or even just swinging! Mind you, it being the first time I can ever recall reading the "n" word in the context of English rugby crowds in a thread about singing the UK National Anthem and written by someone who goes on to say that any new UK National Anthem would have to be "fully PC"(!), I might counsel you as to the possible risk that FF might raise her moderatorial eyebrows thereat...

Irony, Irony where is thy sting Anyway that's not the "n" word we're worried about, it's its derogatory, not to say abusive, corruption.

[Beef Oven!]

All the more reason, then, to encourage the universal abandonment of National Anthems, given the risk that, when more than one such is performed at any major public event, an impressiopn be created that each country whose anthem is so performed could be taken as seeking to assert its superiority over the others, overtly/intentionally or otherwise.


So you'd not advocate that Australia adopt Arrival platform humlet as its National Anthem, then?...

Hinty, go back to your own country, if you don't like it