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  • Dave2002
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 18058

    Word of the day ...

    Kakistocracy.

    I wonder why!?
  • french frank
    Administrator/Moderator
    • Feb 2007
    • 30612

    #2
    Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
    Kakistocracy.

    I wonder why!?
    Tough one, Dave ...
    It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

    Comment

    • LMcD
      Full Member
      • Sep 2017
      • 8790

      #3
      Originally posted by french frank View Post

      Tough one, Dave ...
      I'm relieved (I think) to discover that it doesn't mean rule by the cast of 'It Ain't Half Hot Mum'.

      Comment

      • french frank
        Administrator/Moderator
        • Feb 2007
        • 30612

        #4
        Originally posted by LMcD View Post

        I'm relieved (I think) to discover that it doesn't mean rule by the cast of 'It Ain't Half Hot Mum'.
        Careful now ...
        It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

        Comment

        • Old Grumpy
          Full Member
          • Jan 2011
          • 3676

          #5
          Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
          Kakistocracy.

          I wonder why!?

          Comment

          • eighthobstruction
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 6455

            #6
            ....Dorothea: "I am afraid Rev Casaubon is in the kakistry - conjuring the election of the kakistocrats...."
            bong ching

            Comment

            • Serial_Apologist
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 37933

              #7
              Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
              Kakistocracy.

              I wonder why!?
              Just another camouflage.

              Comment

              • french frank
                Administrator/Moderator
                • Feb 2007
                • 30612

                #8
                Originally posted by eighthobstruction View Post
                ....Dorothea: "I am afraid Rev Casaubon is in the kakistry - conjuring the election of the kakistocrats...."
                It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                Comment

                • smittims
                  Full Member
                  • Aug 2022
                  • 4526

                  #9
                  Yesterday I came across Harridan, presumably horsemeat (not in the OED). The Revd. James Woodforde had it for dinner one day in1798 and described it as 'neither mutton nor lamb. ' He resolved not to have it again.

                  Comment

                  • Old Grumpy
                    Full Member
                    • Jan 2011
                    • 3676

                    #10
                    Originally posted by smittims View Post
                    Yesterday I came across Harridan, presumably horsemeat (not in the OED). The Revd. James Woodforde had it for dinner one day in1798 and described it as 'neither mutton nor lamb. ' He resolved not to have it again.
                    In what context was the word used - the meaning I would associate with it is entirely different!

                    Comment

                    • HighlandDougie
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 3122

                      #11
                      I was sufficiently intrigued by Harridan to download Parson Woodforde's Diary - the copy which had been in Rudyard Kipling's library has been scanned into the "Internet Archive". I didn't find the reference in 1798 but that was because I was skim-reading - can Smittims supply the date? It would be most unlikely to have been horsemeat, as there was a general taboo against eating horses in England, certainly until later in the 19th century. Doing so was seen as a sign of desperation, indicative of famine. I doubt if Woodforde had ever experienced famine, if the consumtion recorded in his diaries is any guide!

                      Comment

                      • smittims
                        Full Member
                        • Aug 2022
                        • 4526

                        #12
                        'September 20, 1798: ... Dinner to day, a foreQr. of Harridan, neither Mutton nor Lamb, Very poor, insipid eating indeed - No more of such kind.'

                        I deduced horsemeat from the OED and Onions (Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology) allusion to the french haridelle : 'an old jade of a horse'.

                        Comment

                        • vinteuil
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 13035

                          #13
                          Originally posted by smittims View Post
                          Yesterday I came across Harridan, presumably horsemeat (not in the OED). The Revd. James Woodforde had it for dinner one day in1798 and described it as 'neither mutton nor lamb. ' He resolved not to have it again.
                          1.) I see OED under Harridan has -

                          ....generally supposed to be an alteration of F. haridelle an old jade of a horse (16thc. in Hatz.-Darm.) also a gaunt ill-favoured woman (Littré); but connecting forms are not known.

                          2.) one of my favourite Woodforde quotes comes early on, in his undergraduate days -

                          1763 Feb 17. I dined at the Chaplain's table with Pickering and Waring, upon a roasted Tongue and Udder, and we went on each of us for it 0. 1. 9. N.B. I shall not dine on a roasted Tongue and Udder again very soon.

                          3.) if you are reading of Woodforde's eating habits in his later life there are repeated references to "the Charter". I have assumed it is some kind of pudding, but it wd be nice to know exactly what he m eant....

                          .

                          Comment

                          • vinteuil
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 13035

                            #14
                            Originally posted by smittims View Post
                            'September 20, 1798: ... Dinner to day, a foreQr. of Harridan, neither Mutton nor Lamb, Very poor, insipid eating indeed - No more of such kind.'

                            I deduced horsemeat from the OED and Onions (Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology) allusion to the french haridelle : 'an old jade of a horse'.
                            Skeat's Etymological Dictionary has for Harridan

                            "It seems to be a variant of MF haridelle, which Cot[grave] explains by 'a poor tit, or leane ill-favored jade;' i.e. a worn-out horse.'

                            Comment

                            • vinteuil
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 13035

                              #15
                              Originally posted by vinteuil View Post

                              3.) if you are reading of Woodforde's eating habits in his later life there are repeated references to "the Charter". I have assumed it is some kind of pudding, but it wd be nice to know exactly what he meant....
                              ... I find others too have wondered - and have found an answer (yes, it is a custard... )

                              Jane Grigson was The Observer's distinguished food writer for many years. Here is a recipe that was first printed in this paper in March 1984.


                              .

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