What I do or do not know about salt!

[Dave2002]

I found this - which trots out the usual things about salt being bad for health and high blood pressure etc.

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2024/nov/24/the-truth-about-salt-how-to-avoid-one-of-the-worlds-biggest-hidden-killers

Around 40 years ago I went out to a car boot sale. It was a hot day. When we returned I felt really ill, and it almost felt like I was going to die then and there. I could hardly stand up.

Mrs D phoned up our local surgery, and the doctor on call [I don't think it was our regular GP] said - "Ah - it's been a hot day. Sounds as though it might be salt deficiency." He then mentioned that the weather was unusually hot for the UK, but that in hot countries it wasn't unreasonable to put a teaspoonful of salt in a cup of tea each morning. He suggested putting salt into a glass of water, and drinking it until I could taste it.

I was surprised - I drank quite a lot without tasting any salt at all. Obviously I must have eventually felt better - I think I felt better in under an hour.

After that I would quite frequently "test" myself in hot weather by putting salt into a glass of water, and drinking that. Very often I didn't taste any salt at all.

It also turned out that, unknown to me, Mrs D had read about salt being bad for health, and since we had recently bought a microwave oven, had not been adding any salt to food for a period of a month or so before.

I'm not suggesting that the general advice about salt intake is wrong, but I will mention that some of it may be speculative and based on extrapolating from "idealised" data and patient records.

It is indeed possible, as the article suggests, that many in the UK have at least 50% more salt intake per day than the recommended maximum, but that in itself could indicate that the so-called "maximum" levels are over cautious.

In reality it is llikely that some of those who are way above the recommended maximum will experience future illnesses, strokes or heart attacks, but a significant number may not. Trying to establish recommended "safe" levels based on theoretical ideas just may not be anything like an exact science and we also know that some individuals have metabolism which behaves very differently from the "norm" or "average".

[french frank]

There does seem to be pretty good evidence that too much salt is bad for you. The problem is that a high proportion of the processed foods contain a lot of salt - and people consume a lot of processed and ultraprocessed foods, not all 'junk food', but fast food, ready prepared foods, convenience foods, shop-bought snacks can all add sodium to the diet without people realising it. The antidote is potassium: avocados, bananas, broccoli, lentils ...

[oddoneout]

As is so often the case it comes down to moderation and a sensible diet.
I remember my father deciding he would reduce his salt intake - I'm not sure what the reason was as it was years before it became something for the medics to badger their patients about. However, after a few days he started to feel unwell, and went to see the GP when things didn't improve. Turned out he was one of those people who needed a reasonable amount of salt in his diet, and as my mother used little if any in the cooking(more by accident than intention - she hated cooking and wasn't good at it) when the table salt was omitted he ended up with too little.

[Petrushka]

I have high blood pressure and high cholesterol (both genetic and both controlled) and salt intake, or lack of, doesn't seem to make a jot of difference.

The Guardian are coming out with frequent articles like this just lately, most of which I take with ... a pinch of salt.

[Bella Kemp]

Perhaps there was less processed food and therefore less salt forty years ago than now. We need salt desperately, but not too much - sometimes I feel the same way about wine

[french frank]

My experience is that prescription drugs can do as much harm (at least to some people) as the natural constituents of various foods, like sodium or saturated fat.

[Serial_Apologist]

Back in the 60s I was working as a waiter in a hotel in Zurich. On one day during the summer the temperature reached 33C; I was constantly in and outside serving customers on the terrace, and consuming large quantities of Coca-Cola to try to quench an acute thirst, but without success. Franz - one of the other waiters - told me that while working in Texas he had been advised on how to overcome such thirst without resorting repetitiously to expensive chilled drinks. Stir just a mustard spoonful of salt into a glass of cold water - say a half pint tumbler - and drink. I did so. The effect was instantaneous: the thirst vanished, and remained so for the remainder of the shift. How this works, I've never bothered to find out. I suppose the brain is primed to register the salt on contact with the taste sensors and react in this way.

[smittims]

I once read that two Glasgow doctors experimented with salt abstinence and found it affected all sorts of things including memory of recent events.

Maybe because I've spent most of my life in Cheshire I've always taken lots of salt and never suffered any ill-effects from it. But it is a good reason never to give pet animals processed foods intended for human taste as they often include much more salt than is good for an animal. And while I'm on it I'll endorse the warning about cats and milk. They may like it but it's too rich in protein for their systems and can lead to painful conditions and early death .

[french frank]

The effect was instantaneous: the thirst vanished, and remained so for the remainder of the shift. How this works, I've never bothered to find out. I suppose the brain is primed to register the salt on contact with the taste sensors and react in this way.

I suppose it underlines the 'fact' (careful now!) that we do need a certain amount of salt in our system. When we get hot we sweat and lose an amount of salt that way. We get dehydrated and thirsty, and the salt needs to be replaced. The advice is interesting.

[oddoneout]

I suppose it underlines the 'fact' (careful now!) that we do need a certain amount of salt in our system. When we get hot we sweat and lose an amount of salt that way. We get dehydrated and thirsty, and the salt needs to be replaced. The advice is interesting.

We are all different which means that, even where science says xyz, that does not mean it is equally applicable. And that's even before the likes of diet, lifestyle, medication are taken into account, let alone the limits of the science in question.
Where a habit is bound up with what things 'should' taste like then science facts have their limits. Those who are used to what they consume tasting sweet or salt may be well aware that sugar or salt in excess isn't good for them, but struggle to get past the taste issue. That is linked to habits in relation to certain foods - crisps are expected to be salty for instance(in this country anyway) and part of the addictive nature of fast food is the salt content and its effect on the expected taste. Just opting for lower salt versions may well not help at all,(possibly because it may well highlight the extent to which a mass produced food product doesn't taste of much else anyway!) it's a case of finding something completely different, without that taste baggage. As with so many such issues, changing the situations in which the habit established in the first place and then takes over - in the case of salt it may be mindless munching of an evening while half watching TV for instance - is part of the key to improving the situation.

[french frank]

Just opting for lower salt versions may well not help at all,(possibly because it may well highlight the extent to which a mass produced food product doesn't taste of much else anyway!) it's a case of finding something completely different, without that taste baggage.

I don't actually add salt to anything, but some processed foods like (artisan) bread and cheese contain salt. So my answer is to stick to such foods as these. Lots of baguette and no more than 30g (or sometimes a bit more ...) of cheese, tofu, some canned veg. These typically have more nutritional benefit than risk to health.

[richardfinegold]

I found this - which trots out the usual things about salt being bad for health and high blood pressure etc.

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2024/nov/24/the-truth-about-salt-how-to-avoid-one-of-the-worlds-biggest-hidden-killers

Around 40 years ago I went out to a car boot sale. It was a hot day. When we returned I felt really ill, and it almost felt like I was going to die then and there. I could hardly stand up.

Mrs D phoned up our local surgery, and the doctor on call [I don't think it was our regular GP] said - "Ah - it's been a hot day. Sounds as though it might be salt deficiency." He then mentioned that the weather was unusually hot for the UK, but that in hot countries it wasn't unreasonable to put a teaspoonful of salt in a cup of tea each morning. He suggested putting salt into a glass of water, and drinking it until I could taste it.

I was surprised - I drank quite a lot without tasting any salt at all. Obviously I must have eventually felt better - I think I felt better in under an hour.

After that I would quite frequently "test" myself in hot weather by putting salt into a glass of water, and drinking that. Very often I didn't taste any salt at all.

It also turned out that, unknown to me, Mrs D had read about salt being bad for health, and since we had recently bought a microwave oven, had not been adding any salt to food for a period of a month or so before.

I'm not suggesting that the general advice about salt intake is wrong, but I will mention that some of it may be speculative and based on extrapolating from "idealised" data and patient records.

It is indeed possible, as the article suggests, that many in the UK have at least 50% more salt intake per day than the recommended maximum, but that in itself could indicate that the so-called "maximum" levels are over cautious.

In reality it is llikely that some of those who are way above the recommended maximum will experience future illnesses, strokes or heart attacks, but a significant number may not. Trying to establish recommended "safe" levels based on theoretical ideas just may not be anything like an exact science and we also know that some individuals have metabolism which behaves very differently from the "norm" or "average".

My guess is that you were probably hyponatremic, which means the sodium level in your blood. It happens frequently when people lose a lot of NaCL from both sweating and insensible losses (mainly increased breathing, which mammals commonly due on hot and humid days, as any dog owner knows). We then tend to drink fluids and that can acutely lower the sodium level further via dilution.
Hyponatremia sometimes is relatively asymptomatic, particularly if the rate of its development is gradual, as frequently happens when people take diuretics or some other blood pressure medication. However if it develops rapidly, such as on a hot day as described, even a small amount of hyponatremia can produce the symptoms that you describe

[french frank]

Which all goes to explain Franz's advice to Serial: "Stir just a mustard spoonful of salt into a glass of cold water - say a half pint tumbler - and drink."

[vinteuil]

My guess is that you were probably hyponatremic, which means the sodium level in your blood. It happens frequently when people lose a lot of NaCL from both sweating and insensible losses (mainly increased breathing, which mammals commonly due on hot and humid days, as any dog owner knows). We then tend to drink fluids and that can acutely lower the sodium level further via dilution.

... good to have richardfinegold's take on this, as a legit medic.

Worth remembering that the 'salt' you lose in sweating is not just 'table salt' NaCl - more complicated than that * : So if you have really lost a significant amount of salts thro' sweating, you need to think of replenishing more fully, not just 'a mustard spoon of 'table salt'' - but a sensible subsequent diet should serve...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspiration

.

[french frank]

a sensible subsequent diet should serve...

Absolutely!

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/nutrition/salty-foods