Meter readings

[antongould]

Let’s see what this brings



I am trying very hard to understand what you are doing so can you answer these questions

1) The annual cost you have used in the calculation of my instalment is not the figure shown on my bill but a different figure estimated so as to incorporate what you assume the price cap changes over the year will be???

2) You are retaining on my account out of my credit balance an amount equal to 1.5 months consumption as a "credit cushion”???


3) The amount of my credit over this credit cushion is used to reduce my instalment???

Please advise if this what you do you your reassessment process.

…… and the reply addressing each of our “questions” in some detail

Hi Jean



You are in credit of £380.63 so this just means that your direct debit over the past months has been more than your usage.



We are going into the colder months now so you will probably start to see this credit reducing but if you are billed up to date and your direct debit is covering your usage you can request all or some of this credit back.



Kind Regards

[french frank]

…… and the reply addressing each of our “questions” in some detail

Hi Jean

You are in credit of £380.63 so this just means that your direct debit over the past months has been more than your usage.

We are going into the colder months now so you will probably start to see this credit reducing but if you are billed up to date and your direct debit is covering your usage you can request all or some of this credit back.

Kind Regards

Perhaps they should have just referred you to this page:

https://www.eonnext.com/blog/135-How-Direct-Debits-are-calculated

and asked her which she would prefer?

[antongould]

Perhaps they should have just referred you to this page:

https://www.eonnext.com/blog/135-How-Direct-Debits-are-calculated

and asked her which she would prefer?

Anything would have been better than what they sent ……. and that link doesn’t tell you how your Direct Debit is calculated

[french frank]

Anything would have been better than what they sent ……. and that link doesn’t tell you how your Direct Debit is calculated

No-o-o-o, but wouldn't one be more interested in how much it was, rather than how they calculated it? It did say you could alter the amount online - if you had an idea of how much it ought to be judged by your usage.

You can also manage your Direct Debit online by logging into your account. There you can set a new payment date and request to change the amount if you feel you are paying too little or too much.

That's if, in this case, she wants a DD which is the same every month, rather than a variable one based on her usage. With my smart meter I told my supplier what I was using and thought my DD should be. When she said I could have a variable one, that's the system I chose.

[antongould]

No-o-o-o, but wouldn't one be more interested in how much it was, rather than how they calculated it? It did say you could alter the amount online - if you had an idea of how much it ought to be judged by your usage.

That's if, in this case, she wants a DD which is the same every month, rather than a variable one based on her usage. With my smart meter I told my supplier what I was using and thought my DD should be. When she said I could have a variable one, that's the system I chose.

All good stuff ff - but this started out when another neighbour got a very dramatic increase in instalment ……. I calculated what it should be by the time honoured methodology and it was way off so I asked for details of the calculation ….. that was 8 months ago and the wait goes on …..

[french frank]

All good stuff ff - but this started out when another neighbour got a very dramatic increase in instalment ……. I calculated what it should be by the time honoured methodology and it was way off so I asked for details of the calculation ….. that was 8 months ago and the wait goes on …..

I know who you are - you're that bloke who gave the company on Trustpilot and said "Terrible. Avoid this company at all costs!" Aren't you?

[antongould]

I know who you are - you're that bloke who gave the company on Trustpilot and said "Terrible. Avoid this company at all costs!" Aren't you?

No I am not because there are others just as bad …..

[oddoneout]

This might be of interest/use.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/energy-direct-debits/

Ovo in response to the question about changing the amount of a DD has this - my bold

You can increase or reduce your payment amount in your online account in the 'Payments' page, or by contacting Ovo. You can reduce your payment by up to 10% and increase your DD to a max of £2,000/month.

Which did make me wonder slightly about their customer profile.

[antongould]

This might be of interest/use.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/energy-direct-debits/

Ovo in response to the question about changing the amount of a DD has this - my bold

Which did make me wonder slightly about their customer profile.

It is of very great interest OOO but I fear it is not ..... dare I say .... telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth - at least the the EON section isn't.

If the detail of their reassessment process was correct it would indeed be simple and straightforward. All it would do would be to take the figure shown on the reassessment bill as "Your Estimated Annual Cost" add the current balance on the bill, or subtract if it is a credit and divide by 12. I have tried this with about half a dozen EON reassessments and never got the answer they have produced.
Remember in the current case EON have started talking about credit cushions and not bring the whole credit into the calculation ...... are Ofgem and more importantly Mr. Lewis aware of this .....????

[Old Grumpy]

The eight tentacled company are advertising heavily at the moment on the basis of (IIRC) their Which? profile. Are they actually any different to any of the others in regard to their billing and communication?

[oddoneout]

It is of very great interest OOO but I fear it is not ..... dare I say .... telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth - at least the the EON section isn't.

If the detail of their reassessment process was correct it would indeed be simple and straightforward. All it would do would be to take the figure shown on the reassessment bill as "Your Estimated Annual Cost" add the current balance on the bill, or subtract if it is a credit and divide by 12. I have tried this with about half a dozen EON reassessments and never got the answer they have produced.
Remember in the current case EON have started talking about credit cushions and not bring the whole credit into the calculation ...... are Ofgem and more importantly Mr. Lewis aware of this .....????

I did think there were some bits missing, " economical with the truth" is the phrase perhaps, but I find it of interest to see what version of the process in such cases is being presented for public consumption. Sometimes it's possible to quote such statements back at the outfits concerned and see what happens. As to your question - even if Ofgem is aware does that make any difference? Regulators under the current administration are deliberately set up to be ineffectual. Is Martin Lewis aware is potentially a rather more worthwhile question.
The practice of taking more money than is needed has been around for a long time and was the driving force behind pushing people to have DD arrangements as far as I could see.When I first encountered it, with BT and nPower (neither of which gave me a choice at the time) I really resented the idea that I was expected to lend them money interest free under the guise of lessening the shock of higher winter bills(nPower) or because I'd had the temerity to make more telephone calls than usual in one quarter(BT). Paying forward for winter energy bills may well be a good idea for many people but it was the refusal to allow me to decide how I wanted to best manage my financial affairs that rankled. As it happened finding different companies who did allow me that choice also benefited me financially, in terms of lower bills, although it was getting shot of the monthly DD that was the impetus.Tiresomely I am now back where I started with energy being monthly DD, with the added twist that "bills" are even more confusing. Telecoms is monthly billing but not DD, but they are extracting more money by not sticking to the rates in the contract I agreed to.Such is progress.

[antongould]

…… and the reply addressing each of our “questions” in some detail

Hi Jean



You are in credit of £380.63 so this just means that your direct debit over the past months has been more than your usage.



We are going into the colder months now so you will probably start to see this credit reducing but if you are billed up to date and your direct debit is covering your usage you can request all or some of this credit back.



Kind Regards

......... and so we asked them to answer the questions and we get this


"Thank you for getting into contact with us.



I apologise that your questions have not been answered prior, but I hope these answers will help:



Our direct debits are set at 12 equal payments across the year, so you build up credit over the summer which acts as a 'winter buffer' during the winter months, where energy consumption is typically higher. These installments are determined by your estimated annual consumption (electricity) and annual quantity (gas), rather than your actual usage. Direct debits are made to allow for regular payments towards your electricity and gas, and then any extra you pay is due to the meter readings we receive. As you are in credit, your direct debit payments have been paying for more than just your usage, but this was designed so that extra usage in the winter is covered. With the price caps updating every 3 months on your variable tariff, any credit on your account will also help to act as a buffer against any price increases.



If your consumption falls, then your direct debit will be automatically updated after a payment adequacy review is done. Your direct debit amount is always a reflection of your annual consumption, a calculation which can take time to update if there have been any major changes.



Whilst we do recommend you keep a credit balance of 1.5 months consumption, to ensure your direct debit is not increased further, you are £380.63 in credit, and you are entitled to this as a refund (whether this be full or a partial credit refund).



If you are finding your direct debit is too high right now, I can reduce your direct debit to £150.18. We can only reduce a DD by 10% right now, if your consumption falls then your direct debit will be automatically updated. Your direct debit amount is always a reflection of your annual consumption, a calculation which can take time to update if there have been any major changes.



We do always advise to keep an eye on your account when making changes like this.



If the system sees that you are falling behind, then it will automatically update your direct debit to cover any additional usage if needed.



If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.



Sending positive energy!



Thanks and best,"


It may answer some question(s) but not the ones we asked .....

[antongould]

......... and so we asked them to answer the questions and we get this


"Thank you for getting into contact with us.



I apologise that your questions have not been answered prior, but I hope these answers will help:



Our direct debits are set at 12 equal payments across the year, so you build up credit over the summer which acts as a 'winter buffer' during the winter months, where energy consumption is typically higher. These installments are determined by your estimated annual consumption (electricity) and annual quantity (gas), rather than your actual usage. Direct debits are made to allow for regular payments towards your electricity and gas, and then any extra you pay is due to the meter readings we receive. As you are in credit, your direct debit payments have been paying for more than just your usage, but this was designed so that extra usage in the winter is covered. With the price caps updating every 3 months on your variable tariff, any credit on your account will also help to act as a buffer against any price increases.



If your consumption falls, then your direct debit will be automatically updated after a payment adequacy review is done. Your direct debit amount is always a reflection of your annual consumption, a calculation which can take time to update if there have been any major changes.



Whilst we do recommend you keep a credit balance of 1.5 months consumption, to ensure your direct debit is not increased further, you are £380.63 in credit, and you are entitled to this as a refund (whether this be full or a partial credit refund).



If you are finding your direct debit is too high right now, I can reduce your direct debit to £150.18. We can only reduce a DD by 10% right now, if your consumption falls then your direct debit will be automatically updated. Your direct debit amount is always a reflection of your annual consumption, a calculation which can take time to update if there have been any major changes.



We do always advise to keep an eye on your account when making changes like this.



If the system sees that you are falling behind, then it will automatically update your direct debit to cover any additional usage if needed.



If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.



Sending positive energy!



Thanks and best,"


It may answer some question(s) but not the ones we asked .....

the “conversation” carried on and suddenly they produced the headline figures in Jean’s calculation …. very scarily their reassessment process works to ensure that throughout the year their customers are ALWAYS in credit …. so if Jean had had a bill of 0.00 they would have added £329 to the calculation to ensure she was £329 in credit on 23/10/24 …… terrible

[eighthobstruction]

If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? (had to look it up....)

[antongould]

If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? (had to look it up....)

wonderful we live among awful people …..