Meter readings

[french frank]

No change requested in monthly direct debit amount ff or do you pay the full monthly bill by DD ….. ???? Apologies if you have already disclosed this …….

Just back from walk and was pondering that very question! My previous DD was £113, and this month they took just £46, which looks like they pocketed the govt's £67 and docked the amount from my bill. My balance before this happened was £132 and I would have expected that to go up a bit if I'd paid the usual DD. Instead, it's gone down to £118 - because my own payment was smaller than the amount of power used. If that helps? So the govt's discount doesn't touch me or my account at all.

[Dave2002]

I've heard this argument, but a 'properly managed' system does work. Birch trees take approximately 30 years before they are harvestable, so you start the yearly plantings 30 years before anything is cut down. Then when you cut down the first year's planting, you plant a new one to replace it so that the forest always has the same number of trees. It's the only way the carbon neutral claim can work.

It only works if there's enough land to grow trees to meet the potential demand over a long period, and also if nothing else goes wrong.

Re "properly managed" some of the arguments for and against fracking are:

Against - methane is around 80 times more damaging to the atmosphere than CO2. Thus methane leaks cause more more damage than just burning other fossil fuels.
For: methane leaks can be managed "properly", and kept to very low and "insignificant" levels.

The evidence to date is that in fact methane leaks can't be managed properly - something which I had severely understimated earlier.

Thus I now tend to be sceptical of arguments based on "proper management".

[french frank]

Thus I now tend to be sceptical of arguments based on "proper management".

In my usage, "proper management" is a linguistic absolute. If the management turns out to have flaws, it no longer is "proper" but I was really only responding to Serial's comment about the gap between cutting down one tree and waiting so many years for its replacement to reach maturity.

[antongould]

Just back from walk and was pondering that very question! My previous DD was £113, and this month they took just £46, which looks like they pocketed the govt's £67 and docked the amount from my bill. My balance before this happened was £132 and I would have expected that to go up a bit if I'd paid the usual DD. Instead, it's gone down to £118 - because my own payment was smaller than the amount of power used. If that helps? So the govt's discount doesn't touch me or my account at all.

But have they “docked the amount … “ from your bill …. ???? In the detailed charges for the month does it show anywhere “less Rishi Monthly Credit - £67 … “ ….. ?????

[antongould]

But have they “docked the amount … “ from your bill …. ???? In the detailed charges for the month does it show anywhere “less Rishi Monthly Credit - £67 … “ ….. ?????

or possibly
Payments
Ff - 46
Liz. - 67

Total -113

[Dave2002]

In my usage, "proper management" is a linguistic absolute. If the management turns out to have flaws, it no longer is "proper" but I was really only responding to Serial's comment about the gap between cutting down one tree and waiting so many years for its replacement to reach maturity.

Indeed, but that linguistic trick only works if "proper management" is possible. For example, in a rural area there may be a surfeit of trees which have to be managed. In those areas it may make sense to use the wood for burning. Also from a forest used for other purposes, such as timber framed buildings there may be a significant quantity of waste wood, which can be used for heating as surplus. Deliberately planting trees to satisfy a very large demand is, however, not sensible IMO, in many circumstances.

Another issue re wood burning is that quite a lot of firewood is actually imported from other countries - such as Lithuania. I did not know this until a year or two back. We have discussed this before.
A few problems with that approach. a. Do we know that the source forests are being managed properly? b. Are the forests in those countries being unnecessarily depleted? c. Do the transport costs and fuel used to move the wood/fuel actually completely counter any other possible sustainability benefits? d. Using wood as a fuel in city areas is going to add to local pollution etc., etc., etc.

We will stock up on wood this year as other fuel supplies are possibly questionable, but I can't say that doing so fills me with great enthusiasm. We're not intending to resort to Dr Zhivago style burning of our furniture - just yet.

[french frank]

We're not intending to resort to Dr Zhivago style burning of our furniture - just yet.

Three weeks ago, one leg on the simple wooden chair on which I was sitting gave way and the whole chair collapsed, pitching me on my back and causing agonising back pain from which I am only now just beginning to recover. As an already disabled person, I thought this an entirely unnecessary act and propose burning the chair as revenge as soon as possible.

[french frank]

But have they “docked the amount … “ from your bill …. ???? In the detailed charges for the month does it show anywhere “less Rishi Monthly Credit - £67 … “ ….. ?????

I haven't looked at the pdf yet, but I checked my bank statement and on 3 Oct they took £46.01 from my account as a Direct Debit. So they don't 'dock the bill' they just dock the DD with Liz paying the balance directly to them. Okay by me.

[oddoneout]

I haven't looked at the pdf yet, but I checked my bank statement and on 3 Oct they took £46.01 from my account as a Direct Debit. So they don't 'dock the bill' they just dock the DD with Liz paying the balance directly to them. Okay by me.

This I think confirms your conclusion. The main thing is that, by whatever means, you are paying less, and the amount of reduction is as expected.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61592496

My supplier would in your case take the usual DD and then refund to your bank account the amount of the government discount.

[pastoralguy]

After the threats highlighted in The Times about the potential for power cuts over the winter, Mrs. PG and I have invested in a Calor Gas heater as well as stocking up on batteries. For some reason, ‘C’ type batteries are constantly out of stock at our local Tesco.

Back to the 1970’s! (I remember my father’s beloved tropical fish dying because the heater and filter were turned off due to the power cuts!)

[french frank]

This I think confirms your conclusion. The main thing is that, by whatever means, you are paying less, and the amount of reduction is as expected.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61592496

My supplier would in your case take the usual DD and then refund to your bank account the amount of the government discount.

I've sent Lord Gould the company's explanation (he may comment on it) of how the new pricing affects me - the reduced DD represents the first instalment of the £400 discount, and the bill, offset by my outstanding credit, is charged once the Energy Price Guarantee has been applied to the otherwise increased prices (I think).

Back to the 1970’s! (I remember my father’s beloved tropical fish dying because the heater and filter were turned off due to the power cuts!)

I had an Aladdin paraffin heater. I somehow managed to cook on it too. I have candles at the ready. I was wishing I still had it!

[oddoneout]

After the threats highlighted in The Times about the potential for power cuts over the winter, Mrs. PG and I have invested in a Calor Gas heater as well as stocking up on batteries. For some reason, ‘C’ type batteries are constantly out of stock at our local Tesco.

Back to the 1970’s! (I remember my father’s beloved tropical fish dying because the heater and filter were turned off due to the power cuts!)

Yes it's all a bit deja vu for a lot of us isn't it?
I fear the Fire Service could find itself very busy this winter as people start using open fires and unsuitable materials to burn on them , and the air quality is going to nose dive - both indoors and out - as a consequence. Which in turn will add to NHS woes...
I wonder if air quality monitoring will be reduced /disabled as water quality monitoring has been/will be renered ineffectual as has happened to water quality monitoring.
A couple of city hostelries announced their moves to turn the clock back by using open fires and candles, to reduce their electricity bills, and I did wonder about the risk of returning to olden times accidents with naked flames.

[oddoneout]

I've sent Lord Gould the company's explanation (he may comment on it) of how the new pricing affects me - the reduced DD represents the first instalment of the £400 discount, and the bill, offset by my outstanding credit, is charged once the Energy Price Guarantee has been applied to the otherwise increased prices (I think).



I had an Aladdin paraffin heater. I somehow managed to cook on it too. I have candles at the ready. I was wishing I still had it!

Oh ff that picture brought back some unwelcome memories! My parents had one of those - same colour - in their first house, and as a very young child(under 5) I managed to get too close and burnt my hand on the top of it. I can still remember the gap between making contact and the awful pain setting in, and the odd look of the skin on my hand. Don't remember anything much after that and it can't have been too serious as I don't have a scar.
Many years later in my first marital home we had a modern version - cream colour and with a safety cut-out if it got knocked over. I can still remember the smell, the condensation, and the trek up and down 3 flights of outside stairs(the top ones were metal and horrid when they froze as they did often that winter) to get refills from the hardware store below the flats. I didn't burn myself though.

[french frank]

Oh ff that picture brought back some unwelcome memories!

Commiserations on the painful memories and burn. Mine was the same colour too - I was living in a 2-room basement flat with a Baby Belling to cook on when there weren't power cuts.

[Petrushka]

...candles, to reduce their electricity bills, and I did wonder about the risk of returning to olden times accidents with naked flames.

Candles are a bit too much 18th century for me and I won't be touching them! Instead, I have a couple of strong torches/flashlights always kept fully charged up, one kept downstairs and the other upstairs. Either of them are strong enough to fully light up a normal sized room. As one who also remembers the 1970s blackouts, candles are just too dangerous.

I got one of the lights from B&Q and the other from Wilkos but ideally I'd prefer something bigger, something along the lines of a wartime searchlight!