Meter readings

[Petrushka]

The Energy Price Cap is widely misunderstood - even by our Dear Leader - to mean that bills will be capped at £2500.

This, from the EON website, explains it properly and everyone should be made aware of the true facts:

You will still pay for the gas and electricity you use. But the government's Energy Price Guarantee will limit the price that we can charge for each unit of energy. However, if you use more gas or electricity, you will pay more. The scheme does not cap your bill at £2,500, your bill amount is still based on how much energy you use.

[french frank]

when it leads to people thinking that the electricity they use in their homes is green that I find it unacceptable. The message is getting through but very slowly and no thanks to the companies involved.

This is the bit I can't get my mind round. Who would actually think that the electricity coming out of their power sockets is somehow different electricity if they're with a 'green' company, compared with what comes out of their neighbour's sockets who's with NPower (or whoever?).

When you pay your bill, you're paying for that amount of renewably generated energy to be fed into the grid, not for it to come out of your home power socket holes. Electricity is just electricity.

[oddoneout]

This is the bit I can't get my mind round. Who would actually think that the electricity coming out of their power sockets is somehow different electricity if they're with a 'green' company, compared with what comes out of their neighbour's sockets who's with NPower (or whoever?).

When you pay your bill, you're paying for that amount of renewably generated energy to be fed into the grid, not for it to come out of your home power socket holes. Electricity is just electricity.

Why wouldn't they think that if they keep seeing "We supply you with 100% renewable electricity"? There is never anything saying, prominently and in the same place, that what comes out of the sockets in your home is not 100% green and hasn't changed just because you're signed up to a green tariff. They choose different fuels at the filling station, choosing a different electricity tariff is seen the same way when it comes to matters green. Hearing people saying "oh it doesn't matter how much electricity I use now I'm on a green tariff" ...
This is an example. This statement

* Electricity reaches you through the national grid. We match all the electricity customers use over a year with 100% renewable electricity we buy directly from renewable generators

appears right at the bottom of several pages of carefully phrased promotional text, below even the company details, so not only would it, conveniently, never be seen, but does not even clarify the "not green juice from the socket" issue. The asterisk it relates to appears at the other (top)end of the promo blurb, with a link that doesn't even go to the caveat - such as it is.

[french frank]

Why wouldn't they think that if they keep seeing "We supply you with 100% renewable electricity"?

Well, some of them might have brains, mightn't they? They genuinely are paying for 'green electricity' and they get supplied with electricity for their domestic use in return. If they didn't understand that, why would they choose green companies in the first place rather the cheapest on offer? It isn't like buying six veggie burgers and getting home to discover they're beefburgers. That would be cause for complaint.

[HighlandDougie]

Although the French Government has trailed the fact that the price of electricity here is liable to increase by up to 20%, a recent move to a new tariff caused by the need to move to a three-phase supply to accommodate a large air-source heat pump (plus two large solar hot water panels) plus a recent e-mail from SSE, has had me compare the respective prices per kWH between Scotland and France: 25.87p vs 13.36p for off-peak and 41.28p vs 16.73p for normal. The standing charge is higher in France but that's because of going from 6kva to 18kva. The differences can't all be caused by government subsidies, surely?

[oddoneout]

Well, some of them might have brains, mightn't they? They genuinely are paying for 'green electricity' and they get supplied with electricity for their domestic use in return. If they didn't understand that, why would they choose green companies in the first place rather the cheapest on offer? It isn't like buying six veggie burgers and getting home to discover they're beefburgers. That would be cause for complaint.

A great many of them have brains - but that doesn't seem to have helped! As I say, clever advertising/marketing coupled with ignorance of the National Grid has sucked a great many folk in, who have taken "we supply you with" at face value. If the National Grid bit was as prominent as the rest I wonder how many would still sign up?
Even people who are paid to know better fall into the same trap - I have twice in the past couple of years complained to the Guardian that their journalist writing articles about local scale, including green, generation projects thought that the electricity so produced would go direct to the premises in the area, when they were very obviously not "off-grid" schemes. Two articles in the local rag made a similar mistake; part of the problem in that instance was that the council spokeswoman who provided the details didn't know what she was talking about - which did rather make me wonder if the committee that made the decision on the project understood either ...

[french frank]

A great many of them have brains - but that doesn't seem to have helped!

I think the problem may lie with which company you buy your 'green energy' from. If Company X (I won't advertise for it again!) says that it only buys energy sourced from renewables, that all has to be officially certificated - that they buy from green generators (who may be companies or individuals or small groups). Company X will have had to pay somewhat more for its energy than if it had been generated from fossil fuels; so Company X's customers have to pay a bit more than if they were with ordinary suppliers. I think people who have opted for Company X, and others like that, will understand. I keep referencing NPower because they came to my door some years ago to persuade me to switch to them. When I said I was with Company X they explained that they had special green tariffs too, probably less expensive than Company X. I was polite. I did not in their face or slam the door.

It's all about equivalences: if I pay for using 100 kWh of electricity, Company X guarantees that it has paid for an equivalent amount from renewable generators supplying the grid. If Bristol City Council's wind turbines at Avonmouth generate 14GWh, they may say that's enough electricity to supply x households in Avonmouth. Of course they don't mean any particular households are supplied with electricity from the turbines.

You know this. All that needs to be investigated is whether mixed fossil/renewables companies are genuinely paying for their guaranteed amount of renewables, and that people understand what percentage of the company's supply comes from renewables.

[Serial_Apologist]

Did anyone see Truss telling Laura Kuenssberg this morning that the government is offering bigger assistance for the energy price hikes than any other European country? It immediately struck me that one reason why could be that France (eg) is capping its increases to 4%? This was not picked up and I always find Kuenssberg disappointing when it comes to putting politicians on the spot, by the way - especially when coming to the Tories. It's not for nothing that many think she's biassed against Labour.

[oddoneout]

I think the problem may lie with which company you buy your 'green energy' from. If Company X (I won't advertise for it again!) says that it only buys energy sourced from renewables, that all has to be officially certificated - that they buy from green generators (who may be companies or individuals or small groups). Company X will have had to pay somewhat more for its energy than if it had been generated from fossil fuels; so Company X's customers have to pay a bit more than if they were with ordinary suppliers. I think people who have opted for Company X, and others like that, will understand. I keep referencing NPower because they came to my door some years ago to persuade me to switch to them. When I said I was with Company X they explained that they had special green tariffs too, probably less expensive than Company X. I was polite. I did not in their face or slam the door.

It's all about equivalences: if I pay for using 100 kWh of electricity, Company X guarantees that it has paid for an equivalent amount from renewable generators supplying the grid. If Bristol City Council's wind turbines at Avonmouth generate 14GWh, they may say that's enough electricity to supply x households in Avonmouth. Of course they don't mean any particular households are supplied with electricity from the turbines.

You know this. All that needs to be investigated is whether mixed fossil/renewables companies are genuinely paying for their guaranteed amount of renewables, and that people understand what percentage of the company's supply comes from renewables.

Anyone going into that level of investigation into their electricity supplier is unlikely to be making the mistake about the National Grid!
Faced with something they don't understand people will tend to take at face value what they are told (in this case by energy companies) on the assumption that it is correct. The whole thing is a hotbed of greenwashing for commercial gain. Those companies which do actually generate some power themselves seem no more upfront about the National Grid issue than those which just buy from others or trade certificates.
More important they understand that whatever the green company fuel mix is it won't be what the National Grid provides to any given home in my view.
On the plus side, judging from conversations and exchanges I have, more people do seem to be aware that they are not getting green electricity to the home direct when they sign up for one of these offers. The energy price crisis has led to a lot of questions abut green power supply as it doesn't seem to make sense that "free" sources of generation aren't any cheaper.

[cloughie]

Did anyone see Truss telling Laura Kuenssberg this morning that the government is offering bigger assistance for the energy price hikes than any other European country? It immediately struck me that one reason why could be that France (eg) is capping its increases to 4%? This was not picked up and I always find Kuenssberg disappointing when it comes to putting politicians on the spot, by the way - especially when coming to the Tories. It's not for nothing that many think she's biassed against Labour.

It maybe that the French don’t need to because EDF will be subsidised by Liz Truss’ borrowings.

[pastoralguy]

When I was a little boy, my late father used to emphasise that I shouldn’t leave an empty room without turning off the light. ‘One day, son, you’ll thank me for it!’

My goodness, he wasn’t wrong!

[Serial_Apologist]

When I was a little boy, my late father used to emphasise that I shouldn’t leave an empty room without turning off the light. ‘One day, son, you’ll thank me for it!’

My goodness, he wasn’t wrong!

What has been astonishing me in recent years are domestic refurbishments with multiple ceiling light fittings - including a great many featured in TV makeover programmes - often at least six fittings per room, It might I suppose be argued that the new light bulbs do not use as much current as the old, moreover many places now have dimmer switches; but a number of refurbished premises around here regularly exhibit interiors illuminated with light levels equivalent to surgical operation rooms, I would think their electric bills must be enormous!

[pastoralguy]

What has been astonishing me in recent years are domestic refurbishments with multiple ceiling light fittings - including a great many featured in TV makeover programmes - often at least six fittings per room, It might I suppose be argued that the new light bulbs do not use as much current as the old, moreover many places now have dimmer switches; but a number of refurbished premises around here regularly exhibit interiors illuminated with light levels equivalent to surgical operation rooms, I would think their electric bills must be enormous!

We have a fitting in our small kitchen with four bulbs and I’m never in a rush to replace a bulb when it blows. I think I’ll be leaving it until two bulbs blow!

[oddoneout]

What has been astonishing me in recent years are domestic refurbishments with multiple ceiling light fittings - including a great many featured in TV makeover programmes - often at least six fittings per room, It might I suppose be argued that the new light bulbs do not use as much current as the old, moreover many places now have dimmer switches; but a number of refurbished premises around here regularly exhibit interiors illuminated with light levels equivalent to surgical operation rooms, I would think their electric bills must be enormous!

Ah yes, the runway school of lighting, guaranteed to avoid providing light where it's actually needed... The early versions of what the Americans apparently call cans were halogen and got very hot - not good at the best of times but particularly not when they had been badly installed and weren't shielded from the surrounding structures. Where multiple ones were installed keeping up with blown bulbs was quite a task. The advent of LED bulbs has improved matters in terms of heat output and energy consumption. When I was house-hunting a few years ago I saw several revamped and newbuild properties and where they had such lighting I immediately made a "cost to change?" note on the particulars.

[Frances_iom]

I have a 12ft square cellar workshop (metal bashing + some of the brown stuff) illumination is 4 x 600x600mm led panels + two more panels over specific machine tools - usual consumption is abt 80W ie less than one hifi amp + tuner and about half or less of the old spot lighting. Most lighting is not the heavy consumer unless left on for long periods when room is not in use.