Meter readings

[french frank]

I've had an email (a couple of days ago) from my supplier with:

full breakdown of the tariff prices - current and increased, plus standing charges
details of the available government discounts and how they will be applied to my bills
my estimated annual bill, calculated without and with the government discounts (that should give me my monthly DD)
[one pot and half a bottle as my share of the caviar and champagne]

It looks like an increase per month of 37% but I opted to pay a lump sum and reduce the DD last time there was rise, so the comparable rise could be about 30%. I checked my outside gas meter with the IHD and it's correct. I can't reach the electric meter to press the correct display button, so I'm going to just have to trust them.

[antongould]

I've had an email (a couple of days ago) from my supplier with:

full breakdown of the tariff prices - current and increased, plus standing charges
details of the available government discounts and how they will be applied to my bills
my estimated annual bill, calculated without and with the government discounts (that should give me my monthly DD)
[one pot and half a bottle as my share of the caviar and champagne]

It looks like an increase per month of 37% but I opted to pay a lump sum and reduce the DD last time there was rise, so the comparable rise could be about 30%. I checked my outside gas meter with the IHD and it's correct. I can't reach the electric meter to press the correct display button, so I'm going to just have to trust them.

Solid performance ff …… you deserve the caviar and champagne …….

In one of yesterday’s Liz Truss interviews, that I had the misfortune to hear, she seemed to suggest that annual bills that would have been £6,500 would for “the typical house” be reduced to £2,500 for 2 years ….. which is, of course, absolute tosh ……

P.S. Does your comprehensive email say how, with the reduction of monthly DD payment methodology, a customer who pays less than £67 a month gets their full Rishi ….. ??????

[oddoneout]

I've heard nowt from my supplier, but I did at least finally manage to submit meter readings today. The usual online route was at first not receptive and then showed ever increasing queue times to be allowed to submit my numbers. They had at least learned from last time that steps needed to be taken to prevent the system falling over, and organised a virtual queue, which probably worked OK for those with smartphones, but I didn't want to be tethered to the PC (23 minutes and rising at the time I jumped ship) for the sole purpose of inputting 2 numbers. After a bit of going round the houses I found an alternative method which seemed to work, but have taken photos of the meters as back-up.
As for the PM not knowing what the cap means - sadly all too expected given her track record so far.

[french frank]

In one of yesterday’s Liz Truss interviews, that I had the misfortune to hear, she seemed to suggest that annual bills that would have been £6,500 would for “the typical house” be reduced to £2,500 for 2 years ….. which is, of course, absolute tosh ……

I've been checking my personalised price comparison tables. As I see it, they're suggesting that w/o any "Government Energy Price Guarantee Support", my annual electricity bill would go up by 45.1%, but with the support by 19.1%. The equivalent figures for gas are a rise of 45.7% without support, and 11.2% with support.

P.S. Does your comprehensive email say how, with the reduction of monthly DD payment methodology, a customer who pays less than £67 a month gets their full Rishi ….. ??????

No, it doesn't say though as the payments are for the winter months, maybe few would be under £66. My guess is it they would have to have the bill wiped out, but not get a credit. But they do say: "Please note these prices do not include the £400 Energy Bill Support Scheme discount which will be applied over six months from 1st October."

[antongould]

I've been checking my personalised price comparison tables. As I see it, they're suggesting that w/o any "Government Energy Price Guarantee Support", my annual electricity bill would go up by 45.1%, but with the support by 19.1%. The equivalent figures for gas are a rise of 45.7% without support, and 11.2% with support.



No, it doesn't say though as the payments are for the winter months, maybe few would be under £66. My guess is it they would have to have the bill wiped out, but not get a credit. But they do say: "Please note these prices do not include the £400 Energy Bill Support Scheme discount which will be applied over six months from 1st October."

As a sad person I have checked the Ofgem instructions to suppliers and it indicates that if for example the customers monthly direct debit for October is £40 then the balance of the £66 to which the customer is entitled - £26 - will be given as a credit on the customer’s next account.
Which of course begs the question why the whole of each month’s payment is not treated as a credit on the bill.

[french frank]

As a sad person I have checked the Ofgem instructions to suppliers and it indicates that if for example the customers monthly direct debit for October is £40 then the balance of the £66 to which the customer is entitled - £26 - will be given as a credit on the customer’s next account.

Not that I think it would apply to me, though it might have done before the price rises. I try to keep within £2 a day, gas and electricity (so far today £1.38 for electricity and 33p for gas), though there will be standing charges and VAT on top of that. My supplier kindly worked out the total amounts for me I fear I shall have to switch the heating on soon.

[oddoneout]

As a sad person I have checked the Ofgem instructions to suppliers and it indicates that if for example the customers monthly direct debit for October is £40 then the balance of the £66 to which the customer is entitled - £26 - will be given as a credit on the customer’s next account.
Which of course begs the question why the whole of each month’s payment is not treated as a credit on the bill.

Does there have to be some form of debit each pay period for a DD I wonder? So if the amount of credit would not only wipe out the debit but end up as a credit payment it is transferred to the next payment due. Back in the day, the times I requested ( demanded more like!) a repayment of the excess amounts Npower held it came by a different route as a separate payment rather than wiping out a couple of month's worth of DD payments.

[antongould]

Does there have to be some form of debit each pay period for a DD I wonder? So if the amount of credit would not only wipe out the debit but end up as a credit payment it is transferred to the next payment due. Back in the day, the times I requested ( demanded more like!) a repayment of the excess amounts Npower held it came by a different route as a separate payment rather than wiping out a couple of month's worth of DD payments.

I am honestly not sure OOO ….. the Ofgem instructions are quite specific if the monthly DD is less than £66/£67 then the difference should be inserted as a credit on the next bill. But suppliers in the brave new world pretty much do as they like and Ofgem looks the other way ….

[french frank]

the Ofgem instructions are quite specific if the monthly DD is less than £66/£67 then the difference should be inserted as a credit on the next bill.

Doesn't that make sense? You build up an account credit as you would if you were overpaying on your DD.

But suppliers in the brave new world pretty much do as they like

Some do, some don't. The thing about, I suppose the mainly 'green', suppliers is that many of the customers will be shareholders in the company - and not looking for big dividends. If the company makes huge profits through the market circumstances, they're ploughed back into investments in green, energy related projects. Seems a good solution to me.

Somewhere, I'm sure, other companies have helpful blogs to explain issues to customers, but checking EDF's and NPower's, I couldn't find much with the clarity of this (no, I'm not a shareholder!)..

[antongould]

Doesn't that make sense? You build up an account credit as you would if you were overpaying on your DD…...

My point is it makes infinite sense and all non prepayment customers should get the £400 by means of 6 monthly credit adjustments on their bills, messing about with DDs and bank accounts is IMVVHO stupid ……

[french frank]

My point is it makes infinite sense and all non prepayment customers should get the £400 by means of 6 monthly credit adjustments on their bills, messing about with DDs and bank accounts is IMVVHO stupid ……

Yes, by 'making sense', I meant it was in line with what happens now: if you have an overpayment or a credit payment it stays in your account as a credit until such time as it's either paid back as a lump sum or your DDs no longer cover your usage and the credit disappears. I just happen to be more sanguine about this because I feel benevolent towards my company and their ethical/environmental practices.

[antongould]

Yes, by 'making sense', I meant it was in line with what happens now: if you have an overpayment or a credit payment it stays in your account as a credit until such time as it's either paid back as a lump sum or your DDs no longer cover your usage and the credit disappears. I just happen to be more sanguine about this because I feel benevolent towards my company and their ethical/environmental practices.

They don’t deserve you ……

[oddoneout]

Doesn't that make sense? You build up an account credit as you would if you were overpaying on your DD.



Some do, some don't. The thing about, I suppose the mainly 'green', suppliers is that many of the customers will be shareholders in the company - and not looking for big dividends. If the company makes huge profits through the market circumstances, they're ploughed back into investments in green, energy related projects. Seems a good solution to me.

Somewhere, I'm sure, other companies have helpful blogs to explain issues to customers, but checking EDF's and NPower's, I couldn't find much with the clarity of this (no, I'm not a shareholder!)..

Are they though? Most green suppliers are just that - they supply green electricity to the grid. The methods by which they obtain that electricity are many and various and some of them seem to be rather more than arms length from renewable generation.
Lot of info here https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/ener...s-aN19W0B8B2Mc
I don't know whether the price cap exemption is still in force for the 3 companies mentioned; one would hope in light of recent developments it has at least been reviewed.

[french frank]

Are they though? Most green suppliers are just that - they supply green electricity to the grid.

I'm referring to the company which buys the energy from various generators (who supply to the grid) and supplies it to the customers. They are a business and as such have shareholders, in this case many are customers who have been kept informed of share offers and obtain shares to support the company and its objectives, rather than get good returns on an investment.

The methods by which they obtain that electricity are many and various and some of them seem to be rather more than arms length from renewable generation.

I'm speaking of my particular company (i.e the one I pay my bills to, not one I own or have shares in). Of course, they could be out-and-out liars, but looking at my app, the dashboard says "Our fuel mix is 100% green electricity: 55% wind power; 29% biogen; 11% solar; 5% hydro." Gas is obviously different in that, as I understand it, it involves various offsetting practices

Lot of info here https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/ener...s-aN19W0B8B2Mc
I don't know whether the price cap exemption is still in force for the 3 companies mentioned; one would hope in light of recent developments it has at least been reviewed.

I read no further than: "As a result, we made Good Energy our first Eco Provider for energy." Ça ne m'étonne pas! On their blog they explain all about the exemption:

"This is because after it was first announced, a government committee recommended that there should be an exemption to the price cap for suppliers which contribute more than others to investing in renewables. After a thorough review by Ofgem, Good Energy was granted such an exemption. They agreed that we support renewables beyond other suppliers and that our costs are materially higher as a result."

https://www.goodenergy.co.uk/good-energy-price-cap-exemption/

[oddoneout]

I'm referring to the company which buys the energy from various generators (who supply to the grid) and supplies it to the customers. They are a business and as such have shareholders, in this case many are customers who have been kept informed of share offers and obtain shares to support the company and its objectives, rather than get good returns on an investment.


I'm speaking of my particular company (i.e the one I pay my bills to, not one I own or have shares in). Of course, they could be out-and-out liars, but looking at my app, the dashboard says "Our fuel mix is 100% green electricity: 55% wind power; 29% biogen; 11% solar; 5% hydro." Gas is obviously different in that, as I understand it, it involves various offsetting practices



I read no further than: "As a result, we made Good Energy our first Eco Provider for energy." Ça ne m'étonne pas! On their blog they explain all about the exemption:

"This is because after it was first announced, a government committee recommended that there should be an exemption to the price cap for suppliers which contribute more than others to investing in renewables. After a thorough review by Ofgem, Good Energy was granted such an exemption. They agreed that we support renewables beyond other suppliers and that our costs are materially higher as a result."

https://www.goodenergy.co.uk/good-en...cap-exemption/

I have an inherent problem with the business of green energy suppliers/green tariffs(not I hasten to add an objection to renewable energy)which goes back to the early days when they started to be offered, and fully exploited the public's lack of knowledge about how the National Grid works in their publicity and advertising. The ASA upheld a complaint I made against one company in I think 2007(requiring full page apology and clarification in national newspaper etc) and at first were fairly keen to continue to make such companies less misleading in their claims. That seems now to have gone by the board, so that the obfuscation continues. It's all, on one level, just clever use of the leeway that is allowed, such as advertisers are paid to do, but when it leads to people thinking that the electricity they use in their homes is green that I find it unacceptable. The message is getting through but very slowly and no thanks to the companies involved.
I've been looking at the website of one of the big players and having a graphic of "our fuel mix"(in pretty colours) showing it as 100% renewable immediately above a graphic of "UK fuel mix"(mostly grey) showing gas, nuclear etc is not comparing like with like. In my view it misleads since it makes no explanation of the difference between the 2 graphics, ie one is in effect what the company buys to match its customers' usage (as it isn't a generator itself), the other is what the grid delivers to the end user - including the customers of the " 100% green fuel mix " company. The liberal use of the word supplier by all such companies is also misleading in my view. Surely only those companies which generate power can be said to supply it; all the others are buying power from 3rd parties and selling it on to the customer. Even then the generators aren't supplying it direct to the end user, but through the National Grid.
Over the years I have continued every now and then to challenge some of the more, erm, irritating advertising material I see, encounters which at times have verged on the bizarre. One in a magazine still makes me smile as it tried to align a free range organic egg producer with green electricity and referred to "natural, locally produced". When I queried the locally produced I was told, after a fair amount of to and fro and call backs, that it meant that it was produced in the UK, ie the company didn't "buy in power from abroad as do many of our competitors" the girl announced disapprovingly. I thanked her for the clarification, but I'm afraid couldn't resist remarking it was a pity they couldn't add "organic" to the "natural, locally produced", claims, like the egg farmer could.