Magna Carta at Salisbury Cathedral

[Hornspieler]

CE Southern Cathedrals Festival
Salisbury Cathedral [recording ]
Choirs of Chichester, Salisbury and Winchester Cathedrals



Order of Service:



Introit: They that put their trust in the Lord (Robin Orr)
Responses: Leighton
Psalms 27, 28, 29 (Woodward, Naylor, Mann, Ouseley, Garrett)
First Lesson: Isaiah 49: 1-7
Office Hymn: Stand up, and bless the Lord (Carlisle)
Canticles: Collegium Magdalenae Oxoniense (Leighton)
Second Lesson: 1 John 1: 1-9
Anthem: In the hand of God (Howard Moody) - Festival Commission - first broadcast
Final Hymn: Praise, my soul, the King of heaven (Praise my soul)



Organ Voluntary: Paean (Howells)



John Challenger (Assistant Director of Music)
David Halls (Director of Music)






[Please forgive early posting]

Early for some, but too late for others.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11776259/Unholy-row-over-plans-to-move-Salisbury-Cathedral-School.html

When I was a pupil at Bishop Wordsworths School (also within the confines of the cathedral close) the Cathedral Choir School was in the close's extreme North West building. (the one which was subsequently purchased by Edward Heath)

Moving the school into the Bishops Palace was a logical step. It meant that the choristers had only to cross the lawn to enter the cathedral via a door in the Cloisters; thus avoiding the traffic and the visitors thronging through the Close. The advantage was not only for the choristers but also a better use of that large facility. The Deans had their Deanery on the close's West Side and there was a Theological College on the North Side. Everyone was happy with the arrangement.

And the Magna Carta could be seen by all the members of the public visiting the cathedral in the Chapter House, which led off from the Cloisters.

So now, at the behest of the Dean, the Bishops Palace is going to house a gang of Church Officials and the Magna Carta.

"Pay up! Pay up! Come and gork at that faded document and see where the high ups of the Church of England have housed themselves in Constable's countryside!"

"Thou canst non serve both God and Mammon"

Apparently, the Dean of Salisbury Cathedral believes that she can.

HS

[Magnificat]

Early for some, but too late for others.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11776259/Unholy-row-over-plans-to-move-Salisbury-Cathedral-School.html

Hornspieler,

The telegraph article says that the proposal is open for consultation.

I may be a cynic but my experience of cathedral consultations is that they are invariably already done deals. If the clergy have already made up their minds to do something it will be accomplished by hook or by crook even if the opposition is powerful.

VCC

[teamsaint]

Good grief.

Money talks, as ever. The Cathedral seems to grow ever more remote from the local people, and follows the money shamelessly.

HS,thanks very much for flagging this up. Incidentally, I think that the School was indeed housed at Wren House in the corner of the close that you describe, but this is not the house that Heath leased. That is Arundels, which is nearer to the Cathedral on the same side of the Close.

Not the only piece of somewhat dubious money grubbing at Salisbury that I have heard of this year, and which information comes straight from the horses mouth.

[teamsaint]

I wonder if the mods might like to move the non choral evensong parts of this to platform three?

[Vox Humana]

Hornspieler,

The telegraph article says that the proposal is open for consultation.

I may be a cynic but my experience of cathedral consultations is that they are invariably already done deals. If the clergy have already made up their minds to do something it will be accomplished by hook or by crook even if the opposition is powerful.

VCC

I don't think you are being cynical at all. It's not peculiar to the C of E. It's a well-known, tried and tested ploy in all walks of life where there is a degree of nominal accountability. Consultation gives the illusion that one is being accountable, reasonable and open minded, when in fact the outcome has already been decided and the consultation is merely a charade, the role of which is to provide a defence against the inevitable criticism. ("We have consulted and listened sympathetically to all points of view...") No one is fooled, everyone knows what is going on, but the technique nevertheless still works and so persists. I speak from experience. I can only hope that Salisbury is an exception to this depressing norm and that there is a genuine will to engage and listen. What particularly exercises me in this proposal is that, yet again, music is the loser. Cathedrals would do well to reflect that it is their music, not the Gospel, that keeps them alive (well, that and the tourism).

[Dave2002]

I may be a cynic but my experience of cathedral consultations is that they are invariably already done deals. If the clergy have already made up their minds to do something it will be accomplished by hook or by crook even if the opposition is powerful.

How uncynical of you not to think that most consultations (e.g by government etc.) are not also mere window dressing, sops to the people, and simply ignored. By such standards there's probably nothing special about cathedral consultations.

[teamsaint]

Latest news from Barchester, sorry Salisbury.

The dean and chapter have refused ( allegedly) to renew the lease on Leaden Hall School, and are forcing through a merger with the Cathedral school.

They really should move into real estate full time.

Oh......



.......All getting rather nasty apparently.....

[ardcarp]

Hope you haven't been affected personally, teamsaint. I suppose Ds & Cs have to keep the roof on their ancient piles (and pay a few musicians too). Exeter seems to have failed in its latest commercial enterprise:

http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co.uk/Exeter-Cathedral-s-8-7m-Roman-Baths-funding-bid/story-26533050-detail/story.html

[teamsaint]

Hope you haven't been affected personally, teamsaint. I suppose Ds & Cs have to keep the roof on their ancient piles (and pay a few musicians too). Exeter seems to have failed in its latest commercial enterprise:

http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co.u...ail/story.html

Thanks for asking Ards. No , not personally affected, but we know people who are and they are very unhappy.

I think you can safely read between the lines of what is appearing in the press. sadly there is a lot of this going on at Salisbury at the moment, and it is all about money, property and control.

I don't think the musicians are in any danger, the D and C wouldn't risk the musical reputation, of that I am sure.

Interesting news about Exeter.

[BBMmk2]

I think an ancestor's signature is on The Magna Carta

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think an ancestor's signature is on The Magna Carta

Same here - my grandad got eight months hard labour.

[BBMmk2]

Same here - my grandad got eight months hard labour.

[teamsaint]

Same here - my grandad got eight months hard labour.

Just 8 months?
Lucky he didnt have the current dean to answer to......

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think an ancestor's signature is on The Magna Carta

But seriously, folks ... this cannot be literally true, Bbm: there are no "signatures" at all on the Magna Carta, not even King John's (who did sign the draft charter, but on the "real" things, his seal is used to legitimise the documents).

[ardcarp]

OK let's assume someone's ancestor or his estates were recorded in The Big Charter. That would, in fact, be more likely than unlikely. One has 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparents, 16 great greats, 32 great, great, greats and so on. After 25 generations you theoretically have more people than have ever lived in these isles. There is a slight fault in that logic because not everyone will have survived, and a lot will have inter-bred along the way. But my point is, it is possible to trace your ancestry back to almost anyone you like if you choose the right path among he forebears.

Sorry to be boring!