2024's 'Portillo moment'

[Petrushka]

That is quite mistaken. People who were banned refused to accept the moderator's decision and kept arguing about it on the forum. There is a specific House Rule asking people NOT to start new threads or post dissent about a decision: the moderator's decision is final. People should query decisions by PM not on the forum. In any case, political discussion even then was 'suspended' not banned.

I originally opened the Ideas and Theories forum precisely in the hope that people would be able to discuss politics in a more analytical way without resorting to insults, ridicule, contempt, anger or any other uncontrolled childishness. This members have shown that they can do and I have no objection to the discussion of recent events. Ban politics, ban football. Or tolerate both

As you were.

OK, that's accepted and I'll retire from the thread.

[Ein Heldenleben]

It’s strikes me that the Truss moment was one that will live long in the memory of lovers of the human comedy and indeed democracy, What really scuppered her was the so called Turnip Taliban candidate - voted for by Conservative members disgruntled with her selection years ago. They have long memories in Norfolk.

[oddoneout]

It’s strikes me that the Truss moment was one that will live long in the memory of lovers of the human comedy and indeed democracy, What really scuppered her was the so called Turnip Taliban candidate - voted for by Conservative members disgruntled with her selection years ago. They have long memories in Norfolk.

I'm sure it was just a mistake but this, from the local rag, amused me. Labour candidate who trounced the lettuce: " I made a point of shaking her after the result was announced..."

[LMcD]

In an interview on BBC Look East, the newly elected MP for Waveney Valley said that the lack of dental services was a major concern and he was determined to get to the root of the problem.

[Mandryka]

It’s strikes me that the Truss moment was one that will live long in the memory of lovers of the human comedy and indeed democracy, What really scuppered her was the so called Turnip Taliban candidate - voted for by Conservative members disgruntled with her selection years ago. They have long memories in Norfolk.

.

[eighthobstruction]

....brilliant....

[Serial_Apologist]

....all is well in the best of all possible worlds....boom boom....

The single transferable vote option.

[french frank]

The single transferable vote option.

Some years back I went to an election meeting held for the Conservative candidate (formerly MP). His argument against STV was interesting: he didn't want to win election 'on the second preference votes of the BNP'. Interesting that he thought he would be their second choice, but he disregarded the fact that under FPTP any tactical voting by the no-hope BNPers would mean he'd get their votes anyway - it just wouldn't be obvious.

[oliver sudden]

he disregarded the fact that under FPTP any tactical voting by the no-hope BNPers would mean he'd get their votes anyway - it just wouldn't be obvious.

Probably quite happy to disregard it even if it were brought to his attention. Labour similarly this time around... there must have been a mountain ot tactical voting going on and even then they only managed a third of the vote. And converting that into two-thirds of the seats must be exactly the outcome they were hoping for when they didn't come out for STV in the 2011 referendum. ('No official party position', I'm told...)

(Not that I'm unhappy with the election outcome in itself!)

[LMcD]

Probably quite happy to disregard it even if it were brought to his attention. Labour similarly this time around... there must have been a mountain ot tactical voting going on and even then they only managed a third of the vote. And converting that into two-thirds of the seats must be exactly the outcome they were hoping for when they didn't come out for STV in the 2011 referendum. ('No official party position', I'm told...)

(Not that I'm unhappy with the election outcome in itself!)

It might be a good thing if tactical voting became the rule rather than the exception, if only because it would probably prevent parties and their candidates from taking the electorate for granted.
Perhaps people are starting to realize that, since no party that wins under our present voting system is going to change or abolish it, tactical voting is as good a way as any of using it to their advantage, and is better than not bothering to vote at all, an option chosen by almost two-fifths of the electorate this time round.

[french frank]

there must have been a mountain ot tactical voting going on and even then they only managed a third of the vote

Not just tactical voting, this time round. Labour certainly lost a lot of the Muslim vote which they normally can rely on. Also, I suspect, they lost some of the anti-Starmer left - who probably voted for the Greens instead which will have inflated their vote.

But gaming the system is now called "voting efficiency" which Labour and the Lib Dems did very well. It's measured by the number of votes it takes to win a seat (divide total votes by total seats). I suspect Reform UK will have learnt a lesson for the future.

And converting that into two-thirds of the seats must be exactly the outcome they were hoping for when they didn't come out for STV in the 2011 referendum. ('No official party position', I'm told...)

STV wasn't actually on offer. It was AV or no change. Many people voted against it because they were persuaded by the argument that AV would be even worse than FPTP. AV isn't proportional but it does have similarities with the French system with two separate votes.

[eighthobstruction]

....I am almost certain that by the end of this parliament that there will be a new verb : to keir....(a cross between to steer and to veer)....

[LMcD]

....I am almost certain that by the end of this parliament that there will be a new verb : to keir....(a cross between to steer and to veer)....

'Deprived of that freedom for which we must fight
To veer to the left or to veer to the right'
(Flanders and Swann's 'Misalliance')

[vinteuil]

....I am almost certain that by the end of this parliament that there will be a new verb : to keir....(a cross between to steer and to veer)....

... if the steering and veering gets us to the right sort of place, I'm happy with that

[oliver sudden]

STV wasn't actually on offer. It was AV or no change. Many people voted against it because they were persuaded by the argument that AV would be even worse than FPTP. AV isn't proportional but it does have similarities with the French system with two separate votes.

Whoopsie! Somehow I had not managed to absorb the fact that those are different things

AV is sometimes called 'instant runoff' I think. The one advantage the French system has over that is the possibility of changing one's mind in between the 'rounds'!

AV is of course how the lower house works in Australia. One characteristic it has (I hesitate to call it an advantage) is that while you don't need to do this absurd thing called tactical voting, it doesn't automatically mean that a party with 5 or 10% approval across the board ends up with actual seats. (Even the proportional part of the German system has a 5% hurdle to keep the wackos out, although that obviously only works up to a certain point...)