A Classic FM presenter writes .....

[smittims]

I wouldn't say that the Eurovision Song Contest has always been absolute cobblers. Up till the 1960s it was , albeit firmly limited to popular entertainment, a cheerful way of bringing TV audiences in various European countries together . The songs were of a 'light-music' character . I think the rot set in with the sixties commercial-pop influence and of course the manipulation of the whole thing for political spitefulness.

As the editors of the Book of Common Prayer wisely said ' There never was any thing by the wit of man so devised that time and chance hath not corrupted it'.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I wouldn't say that the Eurovision Song Contest has always been absolute cobblers. Up till the 1960s it was , albeit firmly limited to popular entertainment, a cheerful way of bringing TV audiences in various European countries together . The songs were of a 'light-music' character . I think the rot set in with the sixties commercial-pop influence and of course the manipulation of the whole thing for political spitefulness.

As the editors of the Book of Common Prayer wisely said ' There never was any thing by the wit of man so devised that time and chance hath not corrupted it'.

When you compare the best of sixties pop music (its 20th Century high point) with most Eurovision entries of the same period there is surely a vast gulf in musical quality . McCartneys Yesterday is a Timeless classic ,as good if it not better than some Schubert , whereas Boom Bang a Bang isn’t.

[Bella Kemp]

A presenter on Classic FM once gave the most gloriously appalling line in the history of classical music broadcasting, when he said, following a performance of the William Tell Overture, 'Took a long time to get there but it was worth it in the end.'

[Master Jacques]

When you compare the best of sixties pop music (its 20th Century high point) with most Eurovision entries of the same period there is surely a vast gulf in musical quality . McCartneys Yesterday is a Timeless classic ,as good if it not better than some Schubert , whereas Boom Bang a Bang isn’t.

As someone who's spent a lot of time (and wasted a lot of ink) on the phenomenon of "popular music" and its gradual divorce from "art music", my own opinion is that there was a more perfect balance between populism and art in the 1920s and 30s, before post-war decadence kicked in. There seems to me more musical and artistic value in Binnie Hale singing 'Spread a Little Happiness' than in anything I've heard from The Beatles. For me, it reflects the human loss of the Great War, twenties flappers and feminine courage in a deep way which the self-pitying sentimentality of 'Yesterday' can't approach.

[Master Jacques]

A presenter on Classic FM once gave the most gloriously appalling line in the history of classical music broadcasting, when he said, following a performance of the William Tell Overture, 'Took a long time to get there but it was worth it in the end.'

There's some truth in it, though, despite the poetic felicity of the 'ranz des vaches' section. One of the many disappointments of the opera, is that the overture's final section ('Come away, come away with William Tell', for those of us raised on Conrad Phillips and the TV series) is never heard again.

What a marvellous choral finale it would have made to Act 4. Rossini missed a trick, there.

[LMcD]

As someone who's spent a lot of time (and wasted a lot of ink) on the phenomenon of "popular music" and its gradual divorce from "art music", my own opinion is that there was a more perfect balance between populism and art in the 1920s and 30s, before post-war decadence kicked in. There seems to me more musical and artistic value in Binnie Hale singing 'Spread a Little Happiness' than in anything I've heard from The Beatles. For me, it reflects the human loss of the Great War, twenties flappers and feminine courage in a deep way which the self-pitying sentimentality of 'Yesterday' can't approach.

Twenties, Thirties, Forties, Fifties, Sixties - I loves 'em all! Less keen on the Seventies, and very little from the Eighties onwards appeals to me.
A couple of examples of masterly Beatles lyrics:
'Waiting to keep an appointment she's made / Meeting a man from the motor trade' - an impending disappointment - or worse - conveyed in just 2 lines. As for what happened to poor Eleanor Rigby - 'Buried along with her name'. Decidedly Hardyesque, I would say.

[smittims]

One thing that strikes me about the popular singers pre-war, generally, is that most of them really could sing. Very few 1960s onwards popular singers had any real range, breath control,etc.

[Serial_Apologist]

Twenties, Thirties, Forties, Fifties, Sixties - I loves 'em all! Less keen on the Seventies, and very little from the Eighties onwards appeals to me.
A couple of examples of masterly Beatles lyrics:
'Waiting to keep an appointment she's made / Meeting a man from the motor trade' - an impending disappointment - or worse - conveyed in just 2 lines. As for what happened to poor Eleanor Rigby - 'Buried along with her name'. Decidedly Hardyesque, I would say.

There was that brief window of more enlightened opportunity to refresh the popular talent away from the Tin Pan Alley/Broadway fixated escapist sentimentalisation in the 1930s, 40s and fifties, mid to end of 1960s, start of 70s, when "the wrong kind of rootlessness" (teenage rebellion) found expression with a little eclectic help from classical music, jazz, art, politics and non-Western cultures and spiritual traditions. It was a period when the past was more critically under re-evaluation, shorn of pre-existing clichés around deference, religion and patriotism, helped by the demographics of the baby boomer generation and, briefly, more enlightened attitudes consequent upon the effective breaking down of class divisions during WW2 in ruling circles about how capitalism's putative benefits could be extended to the actual wealth creators. Ideals which only went so far and could not be realised given capitalism's fundamental needs to prioritise money making. Once they showed signs of faltering new cultural norms (which have now totally invaded the vision of those running Radio 3) directed towards short-term consumer taste shaping came to the fore in marketing strategies to suit economic goals targeted on individual lifestylism as a substitute for progressive change, snuffing out whatever cultural benefits 60s innovations had signalled.

[Serial_Apologist]

One thing that strikes me about the popular singers pre-war, generally, is that most of them really could sing. Very few 1960s onwards popular singers had any real range, breath control,etc.

Introduction of on-stage microphones and advances in broadcasting and recording technology shifted voice projection and other requirements inherited from church, theatre and traditional unamplified concert hall more in the direction of the intimate one-to-one connection between artist and recipient. I don't think this was a question of either "good" or "bad" practice, but of ongoing change governing the context of music production and consumption.

[Globaltruth]

There was that brief window of more enlightened opportunity to refresh the popular talent away from the Tin Pan Alley/Broadway fixated escapist sentimentalisation in the 1930s, 40s and fifties, mid to end of 1960s, start of 70s, when "the wrong kind of rootlessness" (teenage rebellion) found expression with a little eclectic help from classical music, jazz, art, politics and non-Western cultures and spiritual traditions. It was a period when the past was more critically under re-evaluation, shorn of pre-existing clichés around deference, religion and patriotism, helped by the demographics of the baby boomer generation and, briefly, more enlightened attitudes consequent upon the effective breaking down of class divisions during WW2 in ruling circles about how capitalism's putative benefits could be extended to the actual wealth creators. Ideals which only went so far and could not be realised given capitalism's fundamental needs to prioritise money making. Once they showed signs of faltering new cultural norms (which have now totally invaded the vision of those running Radio 3) directed towards short-term consumer taste shaping came to the fore in marketing strategies to suit economic goals targeted on individual lifestylism as a substitute for progressive change, snuffing out whatever cultural benefits 60s innovations had signalled.

Nicely put. That "teenage rebellion" contained a lot of then timely environmental observations too.

[Serial_Apologist]

Nicely put. That "teenage rebellion" contained a lot of then timely environmental observations too.

Witnessing Gregory Bateson give his speech titled "Conscious purpose versus Nature" at the Dialectics of Liberation Congress at the Roundhouse in May 1967 was a turning point for me. It's arguably the best chapter in the paperback highlighting some of the finest speakers at that event, which I still have - I was extremely fortunate to have been there for that, though I missed Marcuse and Stokeley Carmichael.

[Master Jacques]

One thing that strikes me about the popular singers pre-war, generally, is that most of them really could sing. Very few 1960s onwards popular singers had any real range, breath control,etc.

Quite right. When writing about Binnie Hale recently, for the Dictionary of National Biography (she wasn't in, can you believe?, but will be shortly) I was amused to discover a - passing but positive - reference to her in John Steane's The Grand Tradition, his "bible" on the great singers!

[Anastasius]

Feeling very disgruntled, I am. Forgot about the 'schedule improvement' and reached for the radio to enjoy Record Review. Yet another reason to give Radio 3 a miss. Mind you, Mrs Anastasius is tearing her hair out after the Radio 4 schedule 'improvements'.

The 'improved' OED has this new entry

improvement defn 'to wreck beyond all recognition'

[smittims]

I've given up The Archers after many years as it's just not on at the right time for me any more. Yes, I know there's BBC Sounds, but it's not the same , somehow.

[LMcD]

I've given up The Archers after many years as it's just not on at the right time for me any more. Yes, I know there's BBC Sounds, but it's not the same , somehow.

In the last episode to which I listened, Grace Archer died, the enormity of the event being borne in on me by the absence of the theme tune after Phil broke the news. I can't say I've missed the programme in the intervening decades.