US transport and pollution

[Dave2002]

According to the NY Times recently cars and other forms of transport are the largest single source of carbon emissions produced in the US.

Do I even believe this? This is seen as driving climate change.

In the UK and Europe although transport is significant, industry and domestic heating are also significant. Yes - we know that many in the US drive "gas" guzzling cars,
though things have got better at least on a per vehicle basis in recent decades, though the sheer number of cars and the distances people drive may be significantly more than in other countries.

However the weather in the US is not always benign - either too hot - requiring air conditioning to stand a chance of being comfortable, or heating in some very cold winters.

So is this reporting in fact incorrect? Air transport is presumably also included, which will be much more significant for the US than other countries, if international travel is discounted.

If the major issues are due to air travel, then switching to EVs for ground level travel isn't going to make much difference. The reality may be a mix of different issues and factors.

[Ein Heldenleben]

According to the NY Times recently cars and other forms of transport are the largest single source of carbon emissions produced in the US.

Do I even believe this? This is seen as driving climate change.

In the UK and Europe although transport is significant, industry and domestic heating are also significant. Yes - we know that many in the US drive "gas" guzzling cars,
though things have got better at least on a per vehicle basis in recent decades, though the sheer number of cars and the distances people drive may be significantly more than in other countries.

However the weather in the US is not always benign - either too hot - requiring air conditioning to stand a chance of being comfortable, or heating in some very cold winters.

So is this reporting in fact incorrect? Air transport is presumably also included, which will be much more significant for the US than other countries, if international travel is discounted.

If the major issues are due to air travel, then switching to EVs for ground level travel isn't going to make much difference. The reality may be a mix of different issues and factors.

The original source for this is not the NYT but the US Environmental Protection Agency - a government body. It’s an estimate but likely to be by some margin the best one available largely because of the resources the EPA has at its disposal . It doesn’t surprise me . The US is a car based culture with terrible public transport. In California the oil companies bought up the rail system decades ago and ripped it up for example.

[Dave2002]

The original source for this is not the NYT but the US Environmental Protection Agency - a government body. It’s an estimate but likely to be by some margin the best one available largely because of the resources the EPA has at its disposal . It doesn’t surprise me . The US is a car based culture with terrible public transport. In California the oil companies bought up the rail system decades ago and ripped it up for example.

Maybe, but in the UK and EU transport, AFAIK though significant, is not the major culprit re CO2 emissions. Even with air travel taken into some account, I thought it was less than 10% of the total.

[smittims]

I've no means of questioning or testing the assertion but it appears credible to me. Even in England I think often of ther vast amount of emission there must be from the endless streams of cars and commercial vehicles in and around every town and city. To me it seems to be one of those sutuations which was allowed to develop through ignorance, complacency and lack of long-term thinking.

In Utopia this would have been foreseen c.1919, and instead of building new roads and encouraging private vehicles, the emphasis would have been on public transport, especially making use fo the extensive existing rail and canal network instead of allowing them to atrophy. A typical 'guilty man' here (though not the only one) was Ernest Marples, who clearly didn't care what happened in the future as long as he lined his pockets at the time. As with recent politicians, what was needed was not private profit but public service .

[Dave2002]

I've no means of questioning or testing the assertion but it appears credible to me. Even in England I think often of ther vast amount of emission there must be from the endless streams of cars and commercial vehicles in and around every town and city. To me it seems to be one of those sutuations which was allowed to develop through ignorance, complacency and lack of long-term thinking.

In Utopia this would have been foreseen c.1919, and instead of building new roads and encouraging private vehicles, the emphasis would have been on public transport, especially making use fo the extensive existing rail and canal network instead of allowing them to atrophy. A typical 'guilty man' here (though not the only one) was Ernest Marples, who clearly didn't care what happened in the future as long as he lined his pockets at the time. As with recent politicians, what was needed was not private profit but public service .

Population growth hasn't helped. Parents who encourage their kids to go on gap years don't help either - with climate change issues. I remember the freedom which I appeared to get when I bought my first car. In those days roads were generally fairly empty. Now they are congested and horrible in most parts of the UK. In the UK relatively few people fly for journeys within the country, though some do. We fly from Scotland to London or other UK airports sometimes. I used to prefer trains, though an additional deterrent to the use of trains is the kind of rolling stock used. The trains based on the HST which used to go up to some parts of Scotland have now mostly been replaced by very boring and ordinary multiple diesel units. I've not been on any of the new trains which have gradually been replacing the HST based ones. There was a noticeable difference in comfort between the HST 125 trains and some of the multiple units. Also the first class and restaurant facilities on some of the trains were very good, but seem largely to be absent on the newer trains.

In the US some people fly longer distances - and do it regularly. Most of the flights are going to be longer than domestic UK flights, though there are some quite short flights, and flights from feeder airports into bigger ones, such as LA and SF may be really quite short.

Another factor in the estimates of consumption is what categories activities are put in. In the UK some vehicle activity might be put under industrial use for example parts deliveries, and different approaches might be taken for the US data.

[smittims]

Thanks, that's useful. I well remember borowing my mum's Mini to go to Die Meistersinger in Manchester which would finish after the last train left Piccadilly,and parking outside the front door of the Cental Library, happily leaving it there for four hours (no meters) with no fear of vandalism. You can't even get a car there now: it's a pavement in front of the tram lines. And as for rolling stock,I'm still wincing in memory of the bone-shaking ride I took on one of the new CAF units from Chester to Manchester, which felt as thought it had no springs at all. Last year we went to Llandudno for a week, having booked First Class onthe Avanti Holyhead boat train. It was cancelled at short notice and we had to crush onto another CAF unit , overloaded as it was Chester Races that day (of course!) , and no luggage space. But we got there , hungry of course (no catering) and had a good lunch at Molly's Cafe (which I can recommend ) .

Avanti were very good and gave us all our money back: they might have quibbled that our journey was not actually delayed since we got another train.