Last word additions to closed thread by 'The Management'

[french frank]

these days doesn't Ms Bott broadcast about music outside her particular specialism ? ( I haven't heard the programme)

Yes, she does - but not on Radio 3, which is where some listeners, at least, appreciate specialist broadcast(er)s and informed presenters.

[mercia]

I expect Ms B believes she is still an informed presenter, even if its in the wrong place. My memory doesn't really stretch back to the old Third Programme. How many specialist broadcasters would I have heard on a typical Third Programme day ?

[french frank]

I expect Ms B believes she is still an informed presenter, even if its in the wrong place. My memory doesn't really stretch back to the old Third Programme. How many specialist broadcasters would I have heard on a typical Third Programme day ?

Wouldn't that depend on how many specialist programmes you listened to? If it was a programme on musicology, you might have heard a musicologist; if it was a programme that just needed an 'announcer', you would still have hoped to be given accurate information about what you were about to hear, or had just heard. Wouldn't you?

[doversoul1]

I expect Ms B believes she is still an informed presenter, even if its in the wrong place. My memory doesn't really stretch back to the old Third Programme. How many specialist broadcasters would I have heard on a typical Third Programme day ?

Catherine Bott presented concerts on Radio3 that were not of early music. I assume she has extensive knowledge in classical music in general and early music is her additional speciality.

[Old Grumpy]

I tuned to Classic FM in the car the other evening and caught CB presenting "The Full Works Concert" - much the same CB we used to hear on R3.

OG

[P. G. Tipps]

Think back to the days of Richard Baker or Patricia Hughes. That was the standard of presentation that the BBC no longer lives up to.

HS

You are absolutely correct but I fear the real point here has been missed.

The lowering of broadcasting standards has not come about my accident. On the contrary The BBC managers or producers, or whatever we like to call them, have actively demanded a 'dumbing-down' in presentation not just at R3 but elsewhere in the organisation as well. Their now long-held opinion is that this will impress and attract new listeners and viewers (or 'customers') who might have held 'stuffed shirts' views about the BBC. As intimated before the BBC is far from being alone in this. It is the received wisdom, management culture of the day and is widespread in so many areas of modern life. I can also assure ahinton (from some internal as well as external knowledge of the matter) that even John Lewis/Waitrose have not been exempt from such management diktats in recent times!!

What on earth is the point of a presenter 'showing pride' in his/her quality of output when that is frowned upon by the salary-providers in favour of a more relaxed, chatty style, encouraging tweets from listeners telling the world what music they love to listen to on their tablets/smartphones whilst perched on the toilet?

That is the only real point I'm actually making. In other words, those who run R3 no longer want to employ a 'Richard Baker or Patricia Hughes'.

So little point in haranguing those whom they clearly prefer to employ?

[teamsaint]

While looking for reading material about Elizabeth Maconchy's 4th quartet, I came upon this passage from " The Power of Robert Simpson".

Page 140 onwards.
So many things seem to resonate from 35 years ago.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=9kl0dBlus9gC&pg=PA143&lpg=PA143&dq=elizabeth+maconchy+and+robert+simpson&source=bl&ots=TiM0iOyy_U&sig=vBtDNZW0VyC-arR1i8wEYQDroXs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=C6OPVf10hLpR9tmD6Ag&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=elizabeth%20maconchy%20and%20robert%20simpson&f=false

or, perhaps listening to the quartet is a better use of the time.

[french frank]

I tuned to Classic FM in the car the other evening and caught CB presenting "The Full Works Concert" - much the same CB we used to hear on R3.

And in light of what Mr Tipps said about the BBC and other big organisations, let's not forget what CB said of CFM in her departure message on this forum: "… it's heartening that they're offering so warm a welcome to an RP-speaking woman of advancing years… " Very much a diminishing species on Radio 3 and at the BBC. Their loss and their shame.

And that's the point: good presenters can turn their hands to most things; bad ones can't do anything competently (regardless of whether they play an instrument).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

So many things seem to resonate from 35 years ago.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...impson&f=false

Fascinating link, ts not just for Maconchie's letter.

BUT ... Simpson is talking about changes that were occurring in 1980, which presumably had been building up in the latter part of the 1970s - the very time that many (?"most"?) who have commented on such matters on this Forum regard as being the "Golden Age" of their listening. I am too young for Glock, but Ponsonby and Drummond (both referred to in the text surrounding Machonchie's letter) were in charge when some of the finest R3 programmes that I can remember were broadcast.

In 1980, Simpson was 59 - four years older than I am now; it might be tempting to suggest that an age "thing" is at work here - that nostalgia that things were better thirty years ago is clouding judgement on R3 presentation today. Except that the number of listeners increased in the 60s and 70s (when the Third Programme became Radio Three), rather than the consistent falling numbers revealed by RAJAR results.

Yes - listening to Maconchie S4tets is a better way of spending time than attending to these matters. But these matters (and the Simpson book ts links to) are interesting and important of themselves - not least because the chances of hearing a Maconchie S4tet on R3 have the paradox of being simultaneously fat and slim.

[teamsaint]

love the paradox Ferney.

I suppose my point about just getting on with listening is that if a publicly funded service like R3, committed supposedly to certain kinds of music, can't even find space for something like " Discovering Music", then perhaps they are too far down the road of no return.
Taking what we can into our own hands , EG sharing music and thoughts about it, can be part of a positive response.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I suppose my point about just getting on with listening is that if a publicly funded service like R3, committed supposedly to certain kinds of music, can't even find space for something like " Discovering Music", then perhaps they are too far down the road of no return.
Taking what we can into our own hands , EG sharing music and thoughts about it, can be part of a positive response.

I agree - with the very greatest of sadness, I agree - the "bright side" that I look on is that "social media" can be a lot more "social" than traditional broadcasting ever was; and much more informative. In this respect, the future is looking better than the past.

[Hornspieler]

Fascinating link, ts not just for Maconchie's letter.

BUT ... Simpson is talking about changes that were occurring in 1980, which presumably had been building up in the latter part of the 1970s - the very time that many (?"most"?) who have commented on such matters on this Forum regard as being the "Golden Age" of their listening. I am too young for Glock, but Ponsonby and Drummond (both referred to in the text surrounding Machonchie's letter) were in charge when some of the finest R3 programmes that I can remember were broadcast.

Well Glock, who was heard to say (and I quote) "No music of any value has been written between the times of Bach and Schoenberg.." (I was standing only a yard away from him in Dartington Hall when he said it) did his best to lower the morale of the BBC symphony orchestra to the extent that when Denzil Floyd (2nd horn) said to me ".. we're playing so much of this modern music these days that I've forgotten how to pitch an octave in tune. For the first time in years, we're all looking forward to the Proms, so that we can play some proper music."

Bob Ponsonby was formerley the General Manager of the Scottish National Orchestra. In that position, you soon get to know what your audience want to listen to, believe me. After a few weeks under the new regime, the orchestra began to discover its sense of pitch and a much more balanced fare was offered to the listener. Yes, they did still perform new works, but in moderation.

In 1980, Simpson was 59 - four years older than I am now; it might be tempting to suggest that an age "thing" is at work here - that nostalgia that things were better thirty years ago is clouding judgement on R3 presentation today. Except that the number of listeners increased in the 60s and 70s (when the Third Programme became Radio Three), rather than the consistent falling numbers revealed by RAJAR results.

I can't understand why those symphonies by Edmund Rubbra and Bob Simpson have received so little attention.

For me, streets ahead of Malcolm Arnold.

Not too late, Auntie, to give some of them a little airtime. How about starting with Rubbra's 5th?

Yes - listening to Maconchie S4tets is a better way of spending time than attending to these matters. But these matters (and the Simpson book ts links to) are interesting and important of themselves - not least because the chances of hearing a Maconchie S4tet on R3 have the paradox of being simultaneously fat and slim.

Well, as I've said before:

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

HS

[Dave2002]

I can't understand why those symphonies by Edmund Rubbra and Bob Simpson have received so little attention.

For me, streets ahead of Malcolm Arnold.

Not too late, Auntie, to give some of them a little airtime. How about starting with Rubbra's 5th?

HS

I think some real live concerts would be much better - even of Arnold's music. I did go to hear quite a number of works by Simpson, including some first performances, and a complete cycle of string quartets.

What seems to happen is that some music gets performed once (Sir Thomas said something about that ...) and in some cases broadcast (maybe by the BBC) and/or recorded for a repeat showing or TTN, and then forgotten about. In some cases there are commercial rcordings made (Bax, Rubbra, Arnold) then "everyone!!" thinks they've done their bit, and no further performances ever materialise.

There's a world of diference between a continuing culture of live performances and a static culture of canned ones.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think some real live concerts would be much better - even of Arnold's music.

There is a weekend Malcolm Arnold Festival every year:

http://www.malcolmarnoldfestival.com/

... but does any of it get broadcast?

Glock was without doubt the best thing that has happened in this country as far as the broadcast of Musics and Arts from the Western Classical traditions are concerned - and it is noticeable that he was Controller of Music at the time Simpson regards as the BBC's finest (1959 - 72; Simpson resigned in disgust and despair eight years after Glock left).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I can't understand why those symphonies by Edmund Rubbra and Bob Simpson have received so little attention.
For me, streets ahead of Malcolm Arnold.

I agree - but Arnold's own "street" is itself an impressive "neighbourhood".