Last word additions to closed thread by 'The Management'

[MrGongGong]

Relationships with music simply cannot be made to exclude other areas of life.

A shame we can't exclude football though

[Hornspieler]

I think you have "hit the nail on the head", FHG.....

(Yes, I do realise that carpentry is not an acceptable subject for this forum)

I suppose one could start a thread titled "Your Hunded Best Cuts." and I, for one, would start with Schubert's Great C major and all of the Bruckner scherzos

I will refrain from mentioning The Ode to Joy. (Oh dear! I just have, haven't I?)

[Hornspieler]

I think you have "hit the nail on the head", FHG.....

(Yes, I do realise that carpentry is not an acceptable subject for this forum)

I suppose one could start a thread titled "Your Hunded Best Cuts." and I, for one, would start with Schubert's Great C major and all of the Bruckner scherzos

I will refrain from mentioning The Ode to Joy. (Oh dear! I just have, haven't I?)

[french frank]

Out of interest, I've just checked the dreaded Google Analytics for the FoR3 site since January 1 2015.

1. Top page in terms of views is - unsurprisingly - the forum homepage

2. CD Review
3. The Choir
4. Platform 3
5. FoR3 homepage
6. Talking About Music
7. Performance
8. Building A Library
9. Classical Forum
10. Jazz

It could be that the people who talk most are those who are the least interested in Radio 3.

[french frank]

The trouble (for me) is that huge swathes of R3 content has become so unbearable to listen to - which is why I cannot in all conscience describe myself as a "Friend of R3": why should I devote time, energy and friendship to something that (it has become obvious) largely holds my views and tastes in contempt?

The name 'Friends of Radio 3' has been problematic for a lot of people in that could be taken to imply an Appreciation Society. As we make clear on our Facebook page, we aren't an 'uncritical Appreciation Society' of what currently goes out over the airwaves. We are 'Friends' of a concept of Radio 3 as an intelligent, informed, 'authoritative' (as in 'really authoritative', not just claimed) service where knowledgeable listeners are considered just as important as the members of the broad public who happen - oh, joy! - to hear Radio 3 broadcasting 'Glitter and be Gay' - or Carousel.

It is an insult to have a presenter who is so uninformed as to never have heard of Boulez (and pronounces it Boolay); or one who is unaware of a distinction between George Butterworth and Arthur Butterworth, claiming the latter was killed in the First World War; who confidently tells us that Smetana was from the Czech Republic, though 'back in his day, of course, it was called Czechoslovakia'. Or to be 'informed' that Imogen Holst was the wife of Gustav or Acker Bilk played the trumpet … And on and on.

When Radio 3 is unaware of the depths of its ignorance, there's a problem - pace the excellent people who still do their admirable best, day in, day out.

[Beef Oven!]

It is an insult to have a presenter who is so uninformed as to never have heard of Boulez (and pronounces it Boolay); or one who is unaware of a distinction between George Butterworth and Arthur Butterworth, claiming the latter was killed in the First World War; who confidently tells us that Smetana was from the Czech Republic, though 'back in his day, of course, it was called Czechoslovakia'. Or to be 'informed' that Imogen Holst was the wife of Gustav or Acker Bilk played the trumpet … And on and on.

If I didn't know better, I'd think that you are making this up.

I don't think presenters need to be experts, far from it in fact. But it's hard to know how a good job can be done on something if one doesn't have a grasp of basic background information. And there is also a question of credibility, if nothing else.

But surely these examples come from one presenter. As such, it's hardly a fair criticism of R3 in general.

[Hornspieler]

The name 'Friends of Radio 3' has been problematic for a lot of people in that could be taken to imply an Appreciation Society. As we make clear on our Facebook page, we aren't an 'uncritical Appreciation Society' of what currently goes out over the airwaves. We are 'Friends' of a concept of Radio 3 as an intelligent, informed, 'authoritative' (as in 'really authoritative', not just claimed) service where knowledgeable listeners are considered just as important as the members of the broad public who happen - oh, joy! - to hear Radio 3 broadcasting 'Glitter and be Gay' - or Carousel.

It is an insult to have a presenter who is so uninformed as to never have heard of Boulez (and pronounces it Boolay); or one who is unaware of a distinction between George Butterworth and Arthur Butterworth, claiming the latter was killed in the First World War; who confidently tells us that Smetana was from the Czech Republic, though 'back in his day, of course, it was called Czechoslovakia'. Or to be 'informed' that Imogen Holst was the wife of Gustav or Acker Bilk played the trumpet … And on and on.

When Radio 3 is unaware of the depths of its ignorance, there's a problem - pace the excellent people who still do their admirable best, day in, day out.

An excellent summary, FF.

Here's a little tale from my Bristol days which adds weight to your opinion:

I was talking to Acker Bilk, that popular leader of the Wurzles:

"I can't play the ****ing clarinet, Don, and I know it. But as long as people go on buying my records, I shall go on doing it."

HS

[Beef Oven!]

An excellent summary, FF.

Here's a little tale from my Bristol days which adds weight to your opinion:

I was talking to Acker Bilk, that popular leader of the Wurzles:

"I can't play the ****ing clarinet, Don, and I know it. But as long as people go on buying my records, I shall go on doing it."

HS

Nothing wrong with a bit of name-dropping. MrGG doesn't approve - he told me he was saying so to Antonio Pappano the other day.

[Richard Tarleton]

Here's a little tale from my Bristol days which adds weight to your opinion:

I was talking to Acker Bilk, that popular leader of the Wurzles:
HS

Well HS I've learnt something today - that Adge Cutler (that popular leader of the Wurzels ) was road manager for Acker Bilk for a while in his earlier years

I can sing or recite several Wurzels songs from memory to this day.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I can sing or recite several Wurzels songs from memory to this day.

... but choose to do so only when you've been a cider drinker?

[ahinton]

Edit: Just call it " Not the Radio 3 forum".

Then it might end up getting confused instead with Not the Nine O'Clock News (at least for those old enought to remember it!)...

A funny thing might well have happened on the way to the forum but funnier things happen in it.

But Just a Minute; I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue what I'm talking about...

[ahinton]

If I didn't know better, I'd think that you are making this up.

I don't think presenters need to be experts, far from it in fact. But it's hard to know how a good job can be done on something if one doesn't have a grasp of basic background information. And there is also a question of credibility, if nothing else.

But surely these examples come from one presenter. As such, it's hardly a fair criticism of R3 in general.

Agreed entirely - except for the penultimate bit; I'm not arguing with you about it, I just don't know if all of these astonishing gaffes emanated from a single presenter. Did they really?

[french frank]

I just don't know if all of these astonishing gaffes emanated from a single presenter. Did they really?

No, they came from four different sources. Two of them were 'non' Radio 3 presenters put in charge of regular Radio 3 programmes - which is a criticism of Radio 3 for employing them to do the job, not the presenters for not knowing their stuff.

[french frank]

which is a criticism of Radio 3 for employing them to do the job, not the presenters for not knowing their stuff.

Particularly when they have presenters like Catriona Young, John Shea and Paul Guinery kept well away from the 'important' daytime programmes.

Also Jill Anderson. I suspect Louise Fryer may have left, Susan Sharpe may have retired - but they weren't replaced by presenters of the same standard. Jonathan Swain?

[ahinton]

No, they came from four different sources. Two of them were 'non' Radio 3 presenters put in charge of regular Radio 3 programmes - which is a criticism of Radio 3 for employing them to do the job, not the presenters for not knowing their stuff.

I have to say that I'm not entirely surprised that they did not all emanate from the same source and that, had Beefo been correct in that they had done so, the culprit ought at the very least to have been upbraided for repeated incompetence. I agree with the rest of what you write here and it certainly creates a bad impression not only of certain presenters but also of what's expected of them by those who engage them.