Blatter resigns.

[P. G. Tipps]

Can I use this for pedagogical porpoises?

You certainly can if you wish, Mr GG, yet I was being far too moderate in my list of enthusiasts.

I could have added "peasants" and the "proletariat" but that would hardly have struck a chord with our anti-footie forum elitists ... ?

[teamsaint]

Pity most of the team don't!

I agree.

[Flosshilde]

Blaming the 'beautiful game' for the unsocial behaviour of a small minority of its enthusiasts

A 'small' minority?

Association Football is a true art form when played at the highest level.

What is 'the highest level'? Presumably as played by the major teams? Including the assaults on the pitch, the pretend injuries, the fouls, the racist abuse? And off the pitch there's the mob violence, the racism, sexism & homophobia, the sectarianism? & then there's the behaviou of the players - rape, assault, greed. Oh yes, very beautiful. A great role-model - as can be seen in some of the behaviour at matches involving teams from primary schools.

[Pabmusic]

You certainly can if you wish, Mr GG, yet I was being far too moderate in my list of enthusiasts.

I could have added "peasants" and the "proletariat" but that would hardly have struck a chord with our anti-footie forum elitists ... ?

I don't enjoy football - never have, except in the most distant way (I watched England win the World Cup and Southampton the FA Cup). But 'anti-football' is one presumption too far. And 'elitist' - what is that supposed to mean (and why do you think you know me that well?

[jean]

[Beef Oven!]

Don't be a Luddite, MrGongGong.

[cloughie]

I have a horrible feeling that he might be doing a Farage. He's still in charge until at least the end of the year, so there could be scope for a come back at the next vote. I certainly wouldn't put it past him, although of course he might be behind bars by then.

Perhaps they need a Harriet Harman for the interregnum.

[jean]

Don't be a Luddite, MrGongGong.

What's he got to do with it?

And as if the wholesale destruction of the urban environment of Anfield wasn't enough, EFC are planning to bulid a new stadium on Walton Hall Park!

[Beef Oven!]

What's he got to do with it?

Not much. I looked too quickly and thought it was MrGG posting, not you.

[Flosshilde]

most popular and classless game in the world adored by paupers, princes and popes.

I expect much the same thing was said about bear-baiting and public hanging.

[Serial_Apologist]

what surprises me is that the anti football brigade fail to see the up sides of the world's most popular game. I'd put at least some of this down to popular press style myths...such as the belief that there is endless live football on terrestrial TV, ( there is very little ), football matches are like a tribal war with helpless local populations cowering in their back rooms etc etc.

I'm sorry to have to disagree, TS - there are too many blind spots being exercised here for you to be allowed to get away unchallenged.

For all the bad that big money brings, ( and it does this in all walks of life) football can be and often is a very positive thing in the lives of many people, rich and poor. It is a way out of poverty for some.

Eleven at the most, unless the myth of football being all about locality, community and so on is acknowledged

it is a fantastic creative outlet for many millions of players( I imagine Ken Robinson might have something good to say in this regard). playing football is great and enjoyable exercise for millions of people.

How about the millions in poor communities worldwide who are persuaded as to this particular myth - same as with boxing, btw - and told participation in this corruption-suffused sport is offering progress beyond individual interests?

Most of the time it brings people together much more than it divides them.

The same argument once used to justify cockfighting and bear baiting, as flosshilde has pointed out

EG, work place matches.

You mean the chance to reinforce that divisive notion of "loyalty to the firm" through so-called "harmless entertainment"?

It gives many people at lower football levels a chance to coach, (and think about how to get the best out of situations) and try their hand at leadership, that they may never get in working life, or elsewhere in their social life.

But, leadership for what???

Football has many problems, and is much too important in our society. But our society itself is full of the same problems. Personally, I can't see how a 2 year old wearing a Man utd shirt is any worse than wearing another piece of corporate branded clothing, such as a Gap shirt...as long as they come from Manchester of course.

Oh well, that's OK then!

[teamsaint]

I'm sorry to have to disagree, TS - there are too many blind spots being exercised here for you to be allowed to get away unchallenged.



Eleven at the most, unless the myth of football being all about locality, community and so on is acknowledged



How about the millions in poor communities worldwide who are persuaded as to this particular myth - same as with boxing, btw - and told participation in this corruption-suffused sport is offering progress beyond individual interests?



The same argument once used to justify cockfighting and bear baiting, as flosshilde has pointed out



You mean the chance to reinforce that divisive notion of "loyalty to the firm" through so-called "harmless entertainment"?



But, leadership for what???



Oh well, that's OK then!

S-A, I have already acknowledged many of the downsides of modern, money led football.
But it isn't all down. there is some up,and you don't need a blind spot to see them, you just need to look, with context in mind, to the wider , non professional game.

EG, the point about Man Utd clothing Vs Gap, the point is simply that pointing an accusatory finger at football, without looking at the context, is both unfair, but more importantly rather distracting from a wider issue. Some people, like me and I guess you, would have issues with ALL over priced designer/ brands which tend to exploit the buyer, which was the point I was making. ( it is a VERY long time since I bought a football shirt, and I never bought one for my Saints supporting kids).

I'm not really sure what the issues are around participation.lots of people get a great deal of pleasure and exercise through participation.T hey don't necessarily buy into a myth.
There ARE problems around the myth. Visibly, in this country, around young boys who are directed towards the game from a very young age with the dream of Premier league fame and fortune, which frequently fails them long term. But I already agreed that big money brings problems.

This stuff about bear baiting though....sorry, I think its wrong to equate the two in any way. football is generally, ( but not always) played and enjoyed in an atmosphere people enjoy the competition, an the company and experiences of other like minded people.
Competitiveness is over stressed as a virtue in our society. But the fault of that lies with those who have economic power, not in a game whose competitive element is sometimes wrongly used to justify economic drivers.

as for leadership; well " what for "is a good question, but it is just an example of how wider( amateur) football might afford opportunity not available elsewhere.

[Serial_Apologist]

This stuff about bear baiting though....sorry, I think its wrong to equate the two in any way. football is generally, ( but not always) played and enjoyed in an atmosphere people enjoy the competition, an the company and experiences of other like minded people.

But the same could be said in favour of religion or fascism, for that matter. As MrGG would saay, context is everything - recognition of which underpins the strengths of the arguments you deploy so well elsewhere in this forum!

Competitiveness is over stressed as a virtue in our society. But the fault of that lies with those who have economic power, not in a game whose competitive element is sometimes wrongly used to justify economic drivers.

Yet you don't see that this is why football has become the very emblem of globalism as represented by big business and its intrinsically corrupt practices and wealth-based decisonmaking structures!

[teamsaint]

But the same could be said in favour of religion or fascism, for that matter. As MrGG would saay, context is everything - it underpins the strengths of the arguments you deploy so well elsewhere in this forum!



Yet you don't see that this is why football has become the very emblem of globalism as represented by big business and its intrinsically corrupt practices and wealth-based decisonmaking structures!

the issue then is to reclaim the emblem, surely !!.......which would be nice.

yes , of course the issues around what football has, in some ways, come to represent, are very important indeed. But this isn't unique to football. Cricket has had, for example, a quite dreadful record of player corruption, ( almost certainly much worse than football)in a sport where rewards for players are generally much lower. I have stopped watching one day cricket as a result.
( I was very interested to see that the sponsors for the recent Test matches included JP Morgan ,and Deutsche bank.)


I think you are talking about context in terms of competitiveness. I am often, in conversations, at pains to point out that the cooperative element of football is the factor which produces positives. Great teams win, not because they compete better with the other team, but because they cooperate better with each other than the other team does. The worst pub team ( and I have played in a few bad ones) can compete as hard as Chelsea.....

professional Sport is too important in our society, and the emphasis on money is disastrous. But it is here to stay, and so stressing the good aspectsof the wider game as well as the bad, is important.
Perhaps more emphasis in the media on the less obvious negative effects ,would be useful.EG, a recent discussion on transfers on 5Live almost turned into a really interesting piece on the effects of being identified as future talent on young boys and those around them...but it got cut short.....and probably went to the news about some £25m deal !!

[vinteuil]

... my Saints supporting kids)..

... ah, indoctrination starts so early.

Why on earth do you think your children have any interest in Southampton Football Club?