Message to the Education Minister

[subcontrabass]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/12/nicky-morgan-money-teach-british-kids-classical-music

[MrGongGong]

Tony Pappano said some interesting things about young people and music at the RPO awards last week.

[french frank]

Someone sent me the Nicola Benedetti article yesterday and I did feel myself twitching quite a bit. I feel sometimes people try too hard, too obviously, starting from the back foot. I have more sympathy with the stars who don't feel that it's necessary to integrate classical music, very cautiously, with popular music. I don't see how that helps at all.

[Quite liked the metaphor of classical music as the Brussels sprout]

And I assume that by 'classical music' we're meaning 'the core repertoire'? Why not, for once?

[MrGongGong]

Someone sent me the Nicola Benedetti article yesterday and I did feel myself twitching quite a bit.

I think that what she REALLY said might be a bit more nuanced?

There is an interesting debate to be had about music as a thinking subject rather than a recreational one BUT we aren't going to get that now. The most we can hope for is damage limitation i'm afraid

[Serial_Apologist]

I think that what she REALLY said might be a bit more nuanced?

There is an interesting debate to be had about music as a thinking subject rather than a recreational one BUT we aren't going to get that now. The most we can hope for is damage limitation i'm afraid

I've just written words of appreciation, on the David Matthews thread, for the era through which we were lucky to have been educated in the widest sense. The current rising generation will not be afforded our choices and "luxuries". Occasionally I play a cassette I recorded off Radio 3 about 25 years ago of an interview by Ian Carr of the Afro-American jazz drummer Max Roach, then talking about the cuts then underway in American arts education in US inner cities. What Max talked about was a previous, in some ways more enlightened policy towards musically educating black school kids that meant schools provided children of all income levels with musical instruments at which they could become proficient. It was in this way that players of the Charlie Parker/Dizzy Gillespie 1940s era became technically proficient and able, on confronting the then exclusionary racist employment policies towards black players outside the racially divided Swing big band environment, to envision the new form, confronting the idea of white cultural suremacy, of Bebop, and put it into practice. Roach saw parallels in the then still comparatively new form of hip hop, of which he expressed support. This was pre Gangsta Rap of course.

There's a Max Roach Park in Brixton, for those who didn't know.

[cloughie]

Someone sent me the Nicola Benedetti article yesterday and I did feel myself twitching quite a bit. I feel sometimes people try too hard, too obviously, starting from the back foot. I have more sympathy with the stars who don't feel that it's necessary to integrate classical music, very cautiously, with popular music. I don't see how that helps at all.

[Quite liked the metaphor of classical music as the Brussels sprout]

And I assume that by 'classical music' we're meaning 'the core repertoire'? Why not, for once?

From what I have seen of Nicola Benedetti I think you has a very positive approach and I see nothing wrong with an integral approach - I had the great advantage of growing up in a house where a lot of classical music was played and developed an interest in a wide range of other genres. There is no reason why a love of classical music cannot grow from other genres.

[french frank]

From what I have seen of Nicola Benedetti I think you has a very positive approach and I see nothing wrong with an integral approach - I had the great advantage of growing up in a house where a lot of classical music was played and developed an interest in a wide range of other genres. There is no reason why a love of classical music cannot grow from other genres.

The key lies in the fact that you speak of 'a lot of classical music': my gripe is where a tiny bit is included, as a 'token', in a rock concert. Or that it's just (as Jules Buckley once said) 'messed about with' (or as with the televised Urban Classic Prom, cut out of the broadcast because it was on BBC Three and young people would be watching).

But NB's contention that parents should give their children classical music 'whether they like it or not' seems futile: not only will the parents not have a clue about classical music, neither will most grandparents nowadays.

[Mary Chambers]

But NB's contention that parents should give their children classical music 'whether they like it or not' seems futile: not only will the parents not have a clue about classical music, neither will most grandparents nowadays.

That is horribly true, which is why schools should do it - if they can find teachers who know anything. Learning about some great composers would be a start. Music education doesn't have to be about learning an instrument, though ideally that should happen as well. I think it is very insulting to children and 'young people' to assume they won't enjoy it.

[french frank]

That is horribly true, which is why schools should do it - if they can find teachers who know anything.

Indeed - there's the rub.

Music education doesn't have to be about learning an instrument, though ideally that should happen as well. I think it is very insulting to children and 'young people' to assume they won't enjoy it.

Yes, learning an instrument is the most expensive end of the spectrum - providing instruments and qualified teachers, as well as time for lessons. No wonder it doesn't happen in many places.

[mercia]

if British music education is 'not what it was' should I expect there to be a drop in numbers of applications to music colleges or to study music at university ? are orchestras and choirs finding it difficult to recruit ? do classical music events find it hard to sell tickets ? do competitions like choir of the year (or whatever its called) get fewer entrants ?

these would be the obvious 'knock-on effects' wouldn't they ?

[MrGongGong]

if British music education is 'not what it was' should I expect there to be a drop in numbers of applications to music colleges or to study music at university ? are orchestras and choirs finding it difficult to recruit ? do classical music events find it hard to sell tickets ? do competitions like choir of the year (or whatever its called) get fewer entrants ?

these would be the obvious 'knock-on effects' wouldn't they ?

Depends on what you think education is for

[mercia]

Depends on what you think education is for

erm, true I guess. If those examples I listed are not the obvious consequences of a (perceived) deterioration in music education, I just need to be pointed to what are (...... the obvious, palpable, discernible, measurable, * , consequences of a (perceived) deterioration in music education).

*insert words of your choice

I'm just trying to think of more examples. Are there fewer budding composers than there used to be ? (not sure how one would measure that - number of entrants to composer competitions I suppose)

[ardcarp]

Did anyone see this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05px5h1/our-world-saving-gazas-grand-piano

It was ostensibly about 'saving' a concert grand in Gaza, but was really about the difficulty...indeed danger... of making music and teaching it to kids because of religious and political dogma.