Music in school

[MrGongGong]

A sound philosophy, though sometimes too much tolerance (by parents wanting their children to be their friends) can be the source of problems at school

All the more reason to have MORE music IMV
Modelling how people COLLABORATE rather than compete to create things

[BBMmk2]

Our Schola Cantorum is going to Chichester Cathedral to sing Evensong there, tomorrow evening! :)

[MrGongGong]

Our Schola Cantorum is going to Chichester Cathedral to sing Evensong there, tomorrow evening! :)

We have a winner

[Flosshilde]

I'm even more confused than when I listen to a game of 'Mornington Crescent'

[ardcarp]

I am in total agreement with anyone who has pointed out all the benefits of music being part of the general education of all children in all schools.

Going back to the original topic, I would anticipate, sadly, that if a professional orchestra requested to base itself on the premises of a typical UK state school, there would be so many obstacles of a bureaucratic nature to overcome it would be impossible. Eating in the same canteen? Headteachers and governors would be looking for every reason for it not to happen. In a minor way, I know the territory. The trustees of an orchestra with which I am associated wished to do some outreach work in schools. Result? A total lack of interest in every quarter, save for one Catholic Primary School which welcomed some of our players to run a Saturday workshop.

I suspect the underlying reasons include

1. The inconvenience of upsetting a school's routine
2. Paying site staff for extra time
3. Nothing to do with the National Curriculum
4. No Brownie Points in the League Tables
5. An irrational obsession with child-protection
6. Philistinism
7. Apathy

[french frank]

Probably all very true, arders. The Bremen people were lucky that two situations emerged at the same time and a possible single solution to both appeared to present itself.

[Demetrius]

1. The inconvenience of upsetting a school's routine
2. Paying site staff for extra time
7. Apathy

Action stems from pressure. The musical education at my school took a turn for the better when it had to struggle for enough children to prevent being closed down. Suddenly, the school had to be more attractive to parents than the other ones within acceptable reach. The town found some money to spend and suddenly we had a "Bläserklasse" that parents could opt for, and in which the children were tought wind instruments (especially brass; saxophones, trumpets, horns etc). The first two years are fully funded, including the instruments (if the child/the parents want to continue, they then have to buy the instrument, but classes continue free in the normal school schedule.

Parents have to push for what they want, or else will have to wait for good fortune, see the Bremen example. Systems seldom change (or at least, they almost never improve) by themselves.

[ardcarp]

That is a heartening example. The few schools around here that have half-decent music are the ones where the head-teacher is either musical him/herself or at least realises the value of it. Parent-power is great if there are powerful parents. But the latter do not always wish for the arts!

[MrGongGong]

. Parent-power is great if there are powerful parents. But the latter do not always wish for the arts!

The problem is often that music ceases to be a curriculum subject
Learning an instrument is only part of what a music education should be.

[ardcarp]

I'm not trying to sneak one under ff's wire, but has the prospect of non-core-curriculum subjects being
(a) encouraged in schools
and/or
(b) changed in status to become core-curriculum subjects
[and we're talking music here]
increased or decreased with the 'new' government?

Sorry for the clumsy wording...I'm treading carefully here!

[MrGongGong]

I'm not trying to sneak one under ff's wire, but has the prospect of non-core-curriculum subjects being
(a) encouraged in schools
and/or
(b) changed in status to become core-curriculum subjects
[and we're talking music here]
increased or decreased with the 'new' government?

Sorry for the clumsy wording...I'm treading carefully here!

I think for some schools (not all)
we are well and truly f*cked

If it's fine to have non-qualified teachers (as happens in "Free Schools") then expensive subjects like Music will stop, you only have to listen to Cameron's interview on CFM

[Stanfordian]

I think for some schools (not all)
we are well and truly f*cked

If it's fine to have non-qualified teachers (as happens in "Free Schools") then expensive subjects like Music will stop, you only have to listen to Cameron's interview on CFM

Hiya MrGongGong, I ahd no classical music offered durig my school education. I don't think the same school offers music today.

[MrGongGong]

Hiya MrGongGong, I ahd no classical music offered durig my school education. I don't think the same school offers music today.

I've visited schools with orchestral musicians to do workshop projects where the school has NO music department.
10 years ago this wasn't allowed, music was a compulsory subject.
What is desperately sad in these places is that I have had youngsters come up after our sessions and say things like
"I wish we could do music in school"
"I wish I could learn to play the violin" and so on

To which the only answer is to suggest that they try to persuade their parents to send them to a different school.

I can't see this getting any better

Last week I went to one academy school with a fantastic and dynamic music department, all sorts of music happening and highly motivated youngsters and staff BUT unless these things are statutory obligations they stand the chance of being the first to be cut when times get hard.

But I guess no one is that bothered about education anymore as I haven't seen it discussed at all in the election.

[Beef Oven!]

I've visited schools with orchestral musicians to do workshop projects where the school has NO music department.
10 years ago this wasn't allowed, music was a compulsory subject.

Totally agree.

The state should force schools to teach music. Gets my vote

[MrGongGong]

Totally agree.

The state should force schools to teach music. Gets my vote

I suspect that your vote (for what it's worth) went for something else