What can I say?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Same with poetry - don't begin with Daffodils, start with things that immediately matter to them (love, betrayal, helplessness) and show how they're experiencing human Life as it has been for as long as been recorded, from as far across the world where it has been recorded.

Sorry - end of rant.

[french frank]

Not all Musicians isolate themselves from Musics outside their own traditions: many are more often eager to expand and enrich their knowledge and experience.

The Blessèd Chas Hazlewood, for example - he was always on about Squarepusher, Wyclef Jean, h'etcetera. But names of DJs aren't the same as definitions of 'Rock' and 'Concerts'. (Or does Sonic Youth mean 'rock' and Dj Scanner mean 'concerts'?

What one sees is the avantgardistas falling over backwards to engage with the latest forms of popular music, cults, fads and so on, and maybe Squarepusher may squarepush a bit of Lachenmann, Xenakis or Varèse. But it's already been agreed that it's ridiculous to call them 'classical' composers. What about Dj Scanner playing some Mozart or Gesualdo? Just to really show how open-minded he is?

[Serial_Apologist]

Crossover would have denoted a useful category for the likes of MrGG searching the record bins, had not American record producers already designated it for jazz-rock fusion.

My "swap" was Stockhausen for a good friend Richard's Bob Dylan. But we're talking 1971 here, an era when rock and modern classical musicians and composers were more consequentially (imv) interested in each other's provinces than before and since. I wrote on the old boreds describing my experience at that time of turning an 18-year old office colleague on to Stockhausen and Gerhard; but even back then she was moved to ask me where one could get to hear such music.

[MrGongGong]

What one sees is the avantgardistas falling over backwards to engage with the latest forms of popular music, cults, fads and so on, and maybe Squarepusher may squarepush a bit of Lachenmann, Xenakis or Varèse. But it's already been agreed that it's ridiculous to call them 'classical' composers. What about Dj Scanner playing some Mozart or Gesualdo? Just to really show how open-minded he is?

Humm
Maybe some people are just interested in music?
And how do you know DJ Scanner doesn't? (and mr Prokofiev to name but one does this on a regular basis)

Here's Sniff playing some classical music from Java

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2Z1_9FChu0&spfreload=10

Some of these collaborations work and some don't
Personally, even though i'm keen on mr Pusher and the Sniffers ( Sinfonietta) I don't think the thing they did together was very good
This on the other hand is a work of great beauty and comes out of a deep connection both musical and personal

[ahinton]

I take up the gauntlet, I accept your challenge: what definition of 'rock' and 'concerts' might include Varèse, Lachenmann, Ferneyhough and Hespos in a line-up? :-)

Some gauntlet! What definition of anything at all might ever have included all four of these? (especially since the youngest of them would only have been 22 years old and a few thousand miles distant from the eldest upon the death of the latter)?...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The Blessèd Chas Hazlewood, for example - he was always on about Squarepusher, Wyclef Jean, h'etcetera. But names of DJs aren't the same as definitions of 'Rock' and 'Concerts'. (Or does Sonic Youth mean 'rock' and Dj Scanner mean 'concerts'?

What one sees is the avantgardistas falling over backwards to engage with the latest forms of popular music, cults, fads and so on, and maybe Squarepusher may squarepush a bit of Lachenmann, Xenakis or Varèse. But it's already been agreed that it's ridiculous to call them 'classical' composers. What about Dj Scanner playing some Mozart or Gesualdo? Just to really show how open-minded he is?

I hesitate to suggest that you're "doing a Simon", frenchie - but aren't you doing a Simon here? You challenged me to come up with definition(s) "of 'rock' and 'concerts' might include Varèse, Lachenmann, Ferneyhough and Hespos in a line-up?" When I did so, you now move the goalposts and say "well, these are just avantgardistas" - as if your original challenge doesn't count and I'm missing the point that you didn't make in the first place. I'd also said that "Rock" and "concerts" are terms open to a multiplicity of interpretations - but now you deny that Sonic Youth and "names of DJs" are either. What Scanner does in his professional life is as valid a definition of "giving concerts" as what Alfred Brendel does or La Serenissima do. (And, dagnabbit, I can't find evidence that Scanner has included Mozart in his mixes, but I'm sure that I have heard him say that he has!)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And what's with this "one sees ... the avantgardistas falling over backwards to engage with the latest forms of popular Music, cults, fads and so on"? Ferneyhough? Saunders (either of 'em)? Barrett (either of 'em)? Cassidy? Billone? Monteverdi? Machaut?

I suppose it depends on how you define "avant garde" - but might I suggest that one should have gone to Specsavers?

[ahinton]

And what's with this "one sees ... the avantgardistas falling over backwards to engage with the latest forms of popular Music, cults, fads and so on"? Ferneyhough? Saunders (either of 'em)? Barrett (either of 'em)? Cassidy? Billone? Monteverdi? Machaut?

I suppose it depends on how you define "avant garde" - but might I suggest that one should have gone to Specsavers?

You might, I suppose but, in so doing, you'd unwittingly be following my example when I did so in response to a report on a certain blog of the "news" that a certain "soprano" has become pregnant, so I should perhaps refrain from vouching for the wisdom or otherwise of so doing...

[Serial_Apologist]

And what's with this "one sees ... the avantgardistas falling over backwards to engage with the latest forms of popular Music, cults, fads and so on"? Ferneyhough? Saunders (either of 'em)? Barrett (either of 'em)? Cassidy? Billone? Monteverdi? Machaut?

I suppose it depends on how you define "avant garde" - but might I suggest that one should have gone to Specsavers?

HE didn't need to go to Specsavers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZukYTe9tPkY

[ahinton]

HE didn't need to go to Specsavers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZukYTe9tPkY

Nor did Louis or Philip, so I hear; nor, presumably, would Olivier had he decided to entitle one of his pieces Photochromie...

[french frank]

And what's with this "one sees ... the avantgardistas falling over backwards to engage with the latest forms of popular Music, cults, fads and so on"? Ferneyhough? Saunders (either of 'em)? Barrett (either of 'em)? Cassidy? Billone? Monteverdi? Machaut?

I suppose it depends on how you define "avant garde"

It does. I didn't mean composers. I meant The Trendies. Like Hazlewood, Wright :-)

[MrGongGong]

It does. I didn't mean composers. I meant The Trendies. Like Hazlewood, Wright :-)

"The Trendies", i'm expecting some serious "academic" referencing from the prof.

latest forms of popular Music, cults, fads and so on

Has Charles Hazelwood joined the Scientologists ?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It does. I didn't mean composers. I meant The Trendies. Like Hazlewood, Wright :-)

Aha!

[Honoured Guest]

Venn diagrams would assist this discussion.

[french frank]

Has Charles Hazelwood joined the Scientologists ?

Yep - think I spotted you on this one, Gongers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMF-UOPMDFA