Air crash - and update

[Anastasius]

People will always speculate about the reason for an event of this nature, with or without the (possibly ill-considered & premature) release of information. What I don't like is the constant interviews with local people who mostly don't have much connection (apart from living in the same town) with the victims.

+1 I agree with you totally. Or wielding in so-called experts who have little more apparent experience than using Microsoft Flight Simulator!

[doversoul1]

Should we be discussing the incident on a forum like this as if it were a matter of interest, like the general election, when so many people lost their lives? When the investigation reaches the conclusion, we may find issues to talk about, but for now I think all we can (should) do is to express our sympathy for the families and friends of the victims.

[ahinton]

When an event such as this occurs, it is inevitable that many people will discuss it from a number of different standpoints and on the basis of varying degrees of information and misinformation. Yes, it would be good it the media didn't sensationalise any aspect of it and jump to as yet unestablished conclusions in order to do so but, as is equally inevitable in such circumstances, the truth(s) will (hopefully) out only over time and it would be helpful if anyone reading, watching, hearing or thinking about it tried to keep that fact in mind at all times. Whilt I agree that the priority for most people is to "express...sympathy for the families and friends of the victims", those families and friends - and their friends - and local people and those in Spain &c. &c. who have a greater connection with the event and its consequences than do those who have never flown Germanwings or have friends in Germany or Spain or know anyone involved are bound to be exercising themselves over it more than most; added to that the concern that we all have that it could have happened to us and it will be obvious that international interest in it and the outcomes of investigations into it will quite understandably continue to be of abiding concern to almost anyone who knows that the crash occurred.

[MrGongGong]

I would prefer the newspapers to report the news factually and not use emotive words.

I don't think anyone would read them if they did.
Words (and events) are emotive even though these things are difficult to navigate it would be a shame if there was no emotion in the way that things are discussed.

[Anastasius]

I don't think anyone would read them if they did.

The FT seems to manage just fine !

Words (and events) are emotive even though these things are difficult to navigate it would be a shame if there was no emotion in the way that things are discussed.

OK..delete 'emotive' and substitute 'sensationalist'

Also a few more 'allegedly' in their copy wouldn't go amiss.

[Dave2002]

I would prefer the newspapers to report the news factually and not use emotive words. The link that FF pointed to has hit the nail squarely on the head.

Ah, but the "cleverer" newspapers do report factually, in the style of Sir Humphrey.

Typically:

Minister: "Humphrey, you said it is true that X"

Sir H: "No Minister. It is true that I did say 'it is true that she/he/it said X'"

I can't remember the exact episode in which a conversation like this took place, there may have been more than one.

[P. G. Tipps]

Really? How about this quote ? Leaving aside the fact that your 'alternative' is actually physically impossible, there are other possibilities as I put in my original post.

Precisely, as this was the whole point of my post. As to your other possibilities the French authorities have since given their verdict on the recorded info that they possess. Maybe I was wrong to be somewhat unsurprised (if obviously still utterly horrified) at that verdict considering the previously-stated bewilderment of those in the aviation industry as to how the plane suddenly lost altitude and there was no communication/may-day call to the ground?

Well, apart from the media screaming that the pilot is a 'Killer', no.

To be fair to the media, and given what it has been told officially, it is difficult to see what other word might be any more accurate? Of course some (most?) newspapers are just rags and can be thoroughly irresponsible in reporting such events. However, that doesn't mean that the basic facts are not true simply because, understandably, humane folk find them utterly incomprehensible.

I agree. What I do not agree with is the media's banshee wail claiming that it was 'deliberate'. The words 'may be' and 'might' and 'possibly' have been removed from the official press releases in the interest of maintaining the witch hunt.

I'm not aware of such amendments to the official statements. In many instances I would concur completely with you regarding press behaviour and lack of reliability in factual reporting. However, I happened to watch the televised press briefings given by both the French authorities and Lufthansa. I suppose the experts in possession of the available evidence might be wrong in their findings but none of them suggested there was much room for any lingering doubt.

"We at Lufthansa are speechless that this aircraft has been deliberately crashed by the co-pilot," said Carsten Spohr, CEO of Lufthansa, which owns Germanwings.

As much as I too despise media hysteria one can hardly blame it for reporting the officially-provided facts alongside all the usual, and often unthinking, speculation.

Enough is enough. I'll now gladly withdraw from making any further comment on the matter, though I would point out that an internet forum is normally a facility for an exchange of views on the chosen subject of a particular thread?

[Dave2002]

This article, as far as I can see, deals with some of the issues in a reasonable way, and does not make unjustified assertions, or assertions where there is as yet no evidence, or publicly admitted evidence - http://time.com/3761895/germanwings-...wsletter-brief

[Flosshilde]

those families and friends - and their friends - and local people and those in Spain &c. &c. who have a greater connection with the event and its consequences than do those who have never flown Germanwings

The day before the crash I saw an advert for the airline - which I'd never heard of before - & direct flights from Glasgow to Dusseldorf, on a bus. The next day the crash was reported. It's a coincidence which, while being meaningless (as coincidences are), gave the crash extra meaning for me.

[Dave2002]

The day before the crash I saw an advert for the airline - which I'd never heard of before - & direct flights from Glasgow to Dusseldorf, on a bus. The next day the crash was reported. It's a coincidence which, while being meaningless (as coincidences are), gave the crash extra meaning for me.

I have actually been on Germanwings. I thought the airline was OK - at the time.

I also flew on a British Eagle BAC 111 years ago, and a few weeks later one of those crashed.
[memory failing? - see below]
They only had three, so I missed out by a probability of 1/3!!!! [Memory failing?]

Actually it may have been a Viscount - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British..._and_incidents I did go on both BAC 111s and Viscounts,
and even a Britannia operated by British Eagle.

[Cornet IV]

Should we be discussing the incident on a forum like this as if it were a matter of interest, like the general election, when so many people lost their lives? When the investigation reaches the conclusion, we may find issues to talk about, but for now I think all we can (should) do is to express our sympathy for the families and friends of the victims.

I'm in wholehearted agreement with this viewpoint.

I am active on another forum, albeit one devoted to commercial aviation, and the posts arising from this subject already exceed 2500! Until the jury returns, there is no useful purpose to be served in pursuing what can amount to no more than idle speculation.

[Roehre]

Should we be discussing the incident on a forum like this as if it were a matter of interest, like the general election, when so many people lost their lives? When the investigation reaches the conclusion, we may find issues to talk about, but for now I think all we can (should) do is to express our sympathy for the families and friends of the victims.

Putting the question is answering it: no we shouldn't

[Dave2002]

I never fully understood the point being made by this famous quotation

Whereof one cannot speak, therefore one must be silent.

Ludwig Wittgenstein

It may make sense in the current context.

There is perhaps a logical problem with this post. Was the quote originally written in English?

If there is any wisdom in that quote, now might be a time to follow it.

PS The original was in German, from the Tractatus - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tract...-Philosophicus

[Anastasius]

.... Until the jury returns,...

I thought that the 'jury' aka French prosecutors already had! This has to be the shortest airplane crash investigation of all time.

I'm guessing by the other forum you're referring to pprune?

[Flosshilde]

But you started the thread?