Henri Dutilleux plaque outrage

[french frank]

And waht was the source/cause of that "unrest"?

I had the impression (but can't find my source now) that, latterly, it was the general tenseness in Paris after the Charlie Hebdo attack, and the wish was (I simply report my understanding!) that they wanted no protests of any kind over the placing of the plaque.

The maire's explanation was that originally after he had unofficially approved the plaque and referred it for the statutory investigations 'Quelques mois plus tard, Madame Vieu-Charier et le Cabinet de la nouvelle Maire de Paris, Anne Hidalgo, m’ont demandé de reporter [postpone] le projet de plaque en raison d’éléments troublants indiqués dans une note du Comité d’Histoire. Cette décision de sagesse [the postponement] visait à éviter une polémique qui aurait certainement entaché l’œuvre d’Henri Dutilleux.'

As I read that, standard investigations were being carried out and someone turned up a reference in the archives which led to a delay in carrying out the placing of the plaque. Given that the events referred to took place long before most people involved were born, why would anyone want to imagine anything other than that an embarrassing mistake took place?

The fact that the "mistake" - if indeed that's what it was perceived to be (though by whom and at what point remained to be answered) - was not rectified for as long as it wasn't tells all, I think. What as the reson for any such "postponement", even if that's all that it was?

I'm not sure what you think it 'tells'. Okay, so officials thought that there might have been a skeleton in Dutilleux's cupboard. The officials were pretty inefficient at sorting out the truth - crumbs! that's unusual.

What exactly is the purpose of stirring up indignation against anyone? Or believing there was something more sinister than a mistake? The only discrepancy I see in the explanation is the reason for the delay. The delay itself seems likely to be bureaucratic inefficiency.

This is the mayor's account. Ockham's razor would advise taking it at its face value. If you have an alternative explanation, say what it is. Don't just fulminate.

[ahinton]

I had the impression (but can't find my source now) that, latterly, it was the general tenseness in Paris after the Charlie Hebdo attack, and the wish was (I simply report my understanding!) that they wanted no protests of any kind over the placing of the plaque.

The maire's explanation was that originally after he had unofficially approved the plaque and referred it for the statutory investigations 'Quelques mois plus tard, Madame Vieu-Charier et le Cabinet de la nouvelle Maire de Paris, Anne Hidalgo, m’ont demandé de reporter [postpone] le projet de plaque en raison d’éléments troublants indiqués dans une note du Comité d’Histoire. Cette décision de sagesse [the postponement] visait à éviter une polémique qui aurait certainement entaché l’œuvre d’Henri Dutilleux.'

As I read that, standard investigations were being carried out and someone turned up a reference in the archives which led to a delay in carrying out the placing of the plaque. Given that the events referred to took place long before most people involved were born, why would anyone want to imagine anything other than that an embarrassing mistake took place?

I'm not sure what you think it 'tells'. Okay, so officials thought that there might have been a skeleton in Dutilleux's cupboard. The officials were pretty inefficient at sorting out the truth - crumbs! that's unusual.

What exactly is the purpose of stirring up indignation against anyone? Or believing there was something more sinister than a mistake? The only discrepancy I see in the explanation is the reason for the delay. The delay itself seems likely to be bureaucratic inefficiency.

This is the mayor's account. Ockham's razor would advise taking it at its face value. If you have an alternative explanation, say what it is. Don't just fulminate.

I'm not fulminating, especially as matters are now being put right. If I were, I would be joining forces with Colin Matthews, Oliver Knussen, Gary Carpenter, Julian Anderson, Pascal Dusapin, George Benjamin, John Casken, John Pickard and other composers, pianists Anne Queffélec and François-Frédéric Guy, oboist Nick Daniel, soprano Françoise Pollet, clarinettist Michel Portal and heaven knows who else, all of whom you presumably suspect might somehow have persuaded themselves to over-react to a mere tempête in a tasse de café whose origins were nothing more than an adminisrative error; if so, I'm not in bad company...

[french frank]

I'm not fulminating, especially as matters are now being put right. If I were, I would be joining forces with Colin Matthews, Oliver Knussen, Gary Carpenter, Julian Anderson, Pascal Dusapin, George Benjamin, John Casken, John Pickard and other composers, pianists Anne Queffélec and François-Frédéric Guy, oboist Nick Daniel, soprano Françoise Pollet, clarinettist Michel Portal and heaven knows who else, all of whom you presumably suspect might somehow have persuaded themselves to over-react to a mere tempête in a tasse de café whose origins were nothing more than an adminisrative error; if so, I'm not in bad company...

I did invite you to give an alternative explanation, if you have one.

[ahinton]

I did invite you to give an alternative explanation, if you have one.

You did indeed - and I cannot open the maire's account so obviously cannot comment on it. That said - and in the absence of this - the questions remain as to (a) what reason there could be to deny/delay this installation
and (b) where did the idea of HS's "collaboration" come from when the evidence of the very opposite is so easy to find?

[french frank]

You did indeed - and I cannot open the maire's account so obviously cannot comment on it. That said - and in the absence of this - the questions remain as to (a) what reason there could be to deny/delay this installation
and (b) where did the idea of HS's "collaboration" come from when the evidence of the very opposite is so easy to find?

It appears that when an application is made for the city to install special plaques of this kind, routine enquiries are always made as to the 'worthiness' of the subject. That presumably means that scientists, musicians, writers, artists, engineers &c &c &c are 'investigated' by the bureaucrats who are themselves unlikely to be very well versed in the activities of even the most distinguished people in their field.

In this case - and I quoted it above (#46), the Comité d'Histoire looked into Dutilleux's background and having found what were thought to be éléments troublants they advised that any action be postponed.

As it turned out, these troubling elements were no more than that in 1942 he composed music for a Vichy propaganda film, Vichy being a name that still carries a strong association with 'collaboration' in France - whose experience of the war was very different from our own. When the councillor who had initially proposed the plaque became maire, the matter was brought up again and the question of 'further investigations' was revived. That sparked the story that the application for the plaque had been turned down (an accusation for which I have not yet found any evidence).

This American account, which I have just found, seems to 'tell the story' as I understood it, in particular, the note about L-F Céline is interesting. The explanation about the situation in Paris at the present time is explained thus:

"The terrorist attacks in Paris were just two months ago and you still see soldiers with automatic weapons patrolling government buildings, transportation hubs and Jewish schools and synagogues. The kosher supermarket at the Porte de Vincennes, the scene of multiple killings, just reopened on Monday with lines waiting to shop. Recent media coverage also reported on the 70th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz et Birkenau. There were broad hints that a request might be approved at a later time.

This all comes during a time when the French have been painfully reevaluating Louis-Ferdinand Céline, one of the country’s most influential novelist[s]. His persistent and virulent antisemitism, Holocaust denial and racism, expressed until his death in 1961, has been impossible to ignore and his reputation among scholars has been in sharp decline."

With Dutilleux, the importance given the 1942 film score, for many a relatively minor offense, caused an internet brouhaha."

[Honoured Guest]

You did indeed - and I cannot open the maire's account so obviously cannot comment on it. That said - and in the absence of this - the questions remain as to (a) what reason there could be to deny/delay this installation
and (b) where did the idea of HS's "collaboration" come from when the evidence of the very opposite is so easy to find?

With Dutilleux, the importance given the 1942 film score, for many a relatively minor offense, caused an internet brouhaha."

It's disappointing that someone should sign and vehemently support a petition without bothering to ascertain even the most rudimentary basis of what they are petitioning against. This shows why people ignore the signatories of petitions.

[french frank]

It's disappointing that someone should sign and vehemently support a petition without bothering to ascertain even the most rudimentary basis of what they are petitioning against. This shows why people ignore the signatories of petitions.

Ahl-ways the bitter word ...

There was no reason to delay permission for the plaque: that's why I signed the petition - so that they would understand that many, many other people knew the circumstances better than they did. And it worked

[ahinton]

It's disappointing that someone should sign and vehemently support a petition without bothering to ascertain even the most rudimentary basis of what they are petitioning against. This shows why people ignore the signatories of petitions.

That didn't happen on this occasion, did it?! And it was quite clear what they were petitioning against.

[Nick Armstrong]

Ahl-ways the bitter word ...

Perhaps you could PM Zucchini and get him to send HG some of the ointment for his farmer giles, since it seems to have cleared up Z's irritation a treat?

[Flosshilde]

Should there now be a campaign for a blue plaque in Chiswick to Anthony Burgess. English Heritage has declined one on the grounds that it is "too soon after his death to evaluate the merits of shortlisting.” and the panel “felt his overall significance and profile were not yet strong enough to make a case for a blue plaque”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/if-anthony-burgess-doesnt-merit-a-blue-plaque-then-few-do-10145493.html

[Honoured Guest]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-10145493.html

If the panel includes a hair stylist, Mr Wilson will never get his plaque.

[ahinton]

Should there now be a campaign for a blue plaque in Chiswick to Anthony Burgess. English Heritage has declined one on the grounds that it is "too soon after his death to evaluate the merits of shortlisting.” and the panel “felt his overall significance and profile were not yet strong enough to make a case for a blue plaque”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-10145493.html

Well, Burgess died in 1993, yet despite all the other rancour in respect of Henri Dutilleux, it seems at least that no one has suggested that it's "too soon after his death to evaluate the merits" of having a commemorative plaque in his honour.

P.S...

I'e now succeeded in openingthe maire's statement.

Much as one mioght want simply to take it as face value, something is still very wrong about what occurred; whilst I have no interest in blaming any particular individual/s involved (especially as I do not know any of them), there was clearly more than a mere error of judgement on someone's part here, not least because no one ever appears to have pointed accusing fingers at Dutilleux before for his having allegedly ben a Vichy "collaborator" and his work for the Résistance is well documented.

[ahinton]

If the panel includes a hair stylist, Mr Wilson will never get his plaque.

His hair style appeas not to be the reason why a plaque has so far been declined in what seems to me to be a grave error of judgement, albeit without any of the kinds of overtone with which the Dutilleux one was bedevilled until good sense and the outcome of a successful petition of 7,199 including many distinguished composers, FF and other musicians prevalied.