What will replace ipod for quality portable music. ?

[Dave2002]

I am intrigued by the comments re quality of this X3 unit. Most of the reviews of this, and the more expensive X5 do suggest that the sound quality is really good, though perhaps the units need to be matched to high quality headphones to get the full benefit.

There are reviews which suggest that the file navigation isn't so simple as with other products, such as the iPods. The X5 model supports DSD - though whether that will be useful for many people is currently questionable. How would most users acquire DSD files? Also, if the DSD files have been created via PCM, any claimed benefits for DSD in the early recording stages would probably have been lost.

There are other players too, from firms such as iBasso and Cowon. Since I've not tried any of these I can't say how they really fare against each other.

I don't use my iPod Classic much - so whether I'd use one of these FiiO models (or any of the other makes) more is possibly doubtful. I get the feeling that some people will really hear a difference between these units and other players, and also the ability to play lossless files, and hi resolution files means that some users will be able to benefit from the perceived better quality of some recordings - whether due to technical reasons or better mastering/remastering.

One reason why I'll probably not find out whether devices like the X3 sound better is probably that I'll never buy one, perhaps because I might feel the cost is too great, but also because my lifestyle doesn't really require devices like that, and I may just not feel the need to have yet another portable device which will eventually gather dust on my shelves.

I can't honestly say that I've been too disappointed with the sound from portable players - though if they play compressed audio the sound can be poor due to the compression. My lack of disappointment could however simply be because I don't use portable players to any great extent. Better headphones do make a significant difference. I'm not sure that I would hear the difference between an iPod and other players, at least when used as portable devices in possibly noisier environments. Both the X3 and the X5 do have digital outputs, so can be used to drive a larger system using external DACs via either a coaxial or optical cable.

Currently I'm finding that I play disc based recordings more - mostly CDs - if I want to listen to music at acceptable quality.. This often has the advantage of being relatively cheap, and avoids the faff of having to rip and manage large numbers of tracks - been there, done that! Clearly discs are not so good for mobile users. iPods are limited in their ability to drive external systems - either the output is via the headphone audio socket (anaogue - limited by the quality of the output of the device) or via a docking connector, which may be used to feed to a DAC. There were several of those available a few years ago, but probably not many are available now - perhaps too specialist a market.

I can imagine new devices coming along which will in many ways be better than the FiiOs or current Apple products, or most other players.
These should be able to support a range of digital formats - perhaps even including some lossy ones (for backwards compatibility - otherwise not needed), but primarily allowing high resolution audio files in lossless formats, which the FiiO models do. For portable use there would be an audio out connector, or possibly a BlueTooth interface to drive external headphones. Other wireless links may emerge, perhaps even Wi-Fi. Memory capacity could increase significantly, and whether the emerging devices will have internal memory as well as card based memory will have to be seen.

One area where Apple products do seem to have scored is in the user interface - though that's not perfect there either.

I can also imagine future devices supporting multi-channel audio formats, though this would not be particularly useful for audio on the move via headphones, but could be used to stream surround sound to an external system. This would be useful for those whose pattern of activity might include listening to music in the morning, then jogging round the block, then driving to work (so old fashioned ...) and later on going round to see friends and listening to music there via their systems. Of course small tablet computers may also be able to provide some similar functionality - perhaps they already can (however jogging with a tablet might not be great!) - but audio quality in general purpose computing devices is probably not going to be good enough for people who really want to have a good musical experience.

[Richard Barrett]

There are other players too, from firms such as iBasso

(See my comments above.) What has happened with my iBasso DX50 is that it travels everywhere with me - almost everything on it is lossless although it does contain a few mp3s and I believe it supports all currently used audio file formats - and when I'm at home I either put it through the stereo system in the living room, instead of the CD player I very rarely use nowadays, or I connect it to the computer and play back its stored files through this and the audio interface in the studio. So I suppose it gets used more than any of my other music playback devices these days, but since I spend almost at least a third of my time away from home I guess I'm in a different situation from you. As for cost, I'm fairly sure it cost less than my iPod when the latter was new. As I wrote earlier, the sound quality using the same headphones or through the same stereo system is significantly better than the iPod. This is mostly attributable to using lossless formats of course, but compressed files sound better too. It's still not quite on the level of a professional-quality dedicated audio interface but for music listening as opposed to production it will do nicely.

The only thing I don't like so much is the navigation system. All my iPod material was of course loaded in via iTunes, where it's easy to edit metadata; while the new unit is more convenient in the sense that you can just drag files to it on the computer desktop, if you do that you're stuck with the metadata that came with the music, which means for example that for a given composer, some items will be in the menu under the first name, some under the second and some under something else. I'll have to find a way to put this right because it irks me greatly.

[Beef Oven!]

I am intrigued by the comments re quality of this X3 unit. Most of the reviews of this, and the more expensive X5 do suggest that the sound quality is really good, though perhaps the units need to be matched to high quality headphones to get the full benefit.

There are reviews which suggest that the file navigation isn't so simple as with other products, such as the iPods. The X5 model supports DSD - though whether that will be useful for many people is currently questionable. How would most users acquire DSD files? Also, if the DSD files have been created via PCM, any claimed benefits for DSD in the early recording stages would probably have been lost.

There are other players too, from firms such as iBasso and Cowon. Since I've not tried any of these I can't say how they really fare against each other.

I don't use my iPod Classic much - so whether I'd use one of these FiiO models (or any of the other makes) more is possibly doubtful. I get the feeling that some people will really hear a difference between these units and other players, and also the ability to play lossless files, and hi resolution files means that some users will be able to benefit from the perceived better quality of some recordings - whether due to technical reasons or better mastering/remastering.

One reason why I'll probably not find out whether devices like the X3 sound better is probably that I'll never buy one, perhaps because I might feel the cost is too great, but also because my lifestyle doesn't really require devices like that, and I may just not feel the need to have yet another portable device which will eventually gather dust on my shelves.

I can't honestly say that I've been too disappointed with the sound from portable players - though if they play compressed audio the sound can be poor due to the compression. My lack of disappointment could however simply be because I don't use portable players to any great extent. Better headphones do make a significant difference. I'm not sure that I would hear the difference between an iPod and other players, at least when used as portable devices in possibly noisier environments. Both the X3 and the X5 do have digital outputs, so can be used to drive a larger system using external DACs via either a coaxial or optical cable.

Currently I'm finding that I play disc based recordings more - mostly CDs - if I want to listen to music at acceptable quality.. This often has the advantage of being relatively cheap, and avoids the faff of having to rip and manage large numbers of tracks - been there, done that! Clearly discs are not so good for mobile users. iPods are limited in their ability to drive external systems - either the output is via the headphone audio socket (anaogue - limited by the quality of the output of the device) or via a docking connector, which may be used to feed to a DAC. There were several of those available a few years ago, but probably not many are available now - perhaps too specialist a market.

I can imagine new devices coming along which will in many ways be better than the FiiOs or current Apple products, or most other players.
These should be able to support a range of digital formats - perhaps even including some lossy ones (for backwards compatibility - otherwise not needed), but primarily allowing high resolution audio files in lossless formats, which the FiiO models do. For portable use there would be an audio out connector, or possibly a BlueTooth interface to drive external headphones. Other wireless links may emerge, perhaps even Wi-Fi. Memory capacity could increase significantly, and whether the emerging devices will have internal memory as well as card based memory will have to be seen.

One area where Apple products do seem to have scored is in the user interface - though that's not perfect there either.

I can also imagine future devices supporting multi-channel audio formats, though this would not be particularly useful for audio on the move via headphones, but could be used to stream surround sound to an external system. This would be useful for those whose pattern of activity might include listening to music in the morning, then jogging round the block, then driving to work (so old fashioned ...) and later on going round to see friends and listening to music there via their systems. Of course small tablet computers may also be able to provide some similar functionality - perhaps they already can (however jogging with a tablet might not be great!) - but audio quality in general purpose computing devices is probably not going to be good enough for people who really want to have a good musical experience.

I guess it depends on lifestyle. When I'm out of the house, the DAP is pretty much with me wherever I go. I'm out of the country for about 3/4 months of the year and my iPod (from now on FiiO) is always with me and in use at least a couple of hours a day.

I usually play music from my MacBook through my living room Naim system via Apple's Airport, or from the laptop through a pair of active Genelec monitors (Unlike you, I've pretty much stopped popping CDs into a CD player to listen to music). But when I'm doing chores like cleaning the kitchen, doing bits and pieces around the house, I listen to music through headphones and earphones on the FiiO.

The user interface was the thing that was the downside with the new player, but almost on an hourly basis I'm getting to preferring it!

There are far more organising options for your music with SD cards and I've just discovered a simple way to cancel out any issues about 'random' metadata importing and for the first time my portable music is organised exactly how I want it (I did not expect this benefit). In fact the way you can organise music and find it, is actually better than the iPod.

It plays for about 10 hours which is similar to the iPod, but it seems to use more juice on standby. One big strength of the iPod Classic is that I don't think I ever found it out of juice, and I didn't really bother about keeping an eye on battery level. I don't think that this FiiO will be like that.

For me, getting a hi-res DAP was logical. I listen to music 'on the go' for a at least a couple of hours per day, so a portable device is a must have. These new Hi-res players give very good sound quality, much better than players like iPods. I've had my iPod Classic since 2008, it's been with me all over the world (well, Europe USA and the near and middle east) and it owes me nothing!

One last thing. When I switch this new player on, it says "Welcome" and when I switch it off it says "See You", which I think is nice. In all places and over all the years that I had the iPod, it didn't even say hello once to me. That's Apple for you, I suppose.

[Cockney Sparrow]

...........There are far more organising options for your music with SD cards and I've just discovered a simple way to cancel out any issues about 'random' metadata importing and for the first time my portable music is organised exactly how I want it (I did not expect this benefit). In fact the way you can organise music and find it, is actually better than the iPod.

BO - please, please tell us more, the more detail the better, about what you are doing in this respect. I have an iPod Touch waiting to be used, which I will gladly pass on to my daughter if there is a way of organising non iTunes audio for classical music. A way likely to be sustainable into the future long term.
I have a feeling that once I start organising tags for iTunes, and re-coding from FLAC, I will be irrevocably hitched to Apple. And Apple obviously give not a moments thought to classical music users, and to boot, change iTunes without regard for users, but to push the latest sector of product (films, streaming, whatever) and any fad likely to appeal to the (non Classical, obviously) mass market.

[Beef Oven!]

BO - please, please tell us more, the more detail the better, about what you are doing in this respect. I have an iPod Touch waiting to be used, which I will gladly pass on to my daughter if there is a way of organising non iTunes audio for classical music. A way likely to be sustainable into the future long term.
I have a feeling that once I start organising tags for iTunes, and re-coding from FLAC, I will be irrevocably hitched to Apple. And Apple obviously give not a moments thought to classical music users, and to boot, change iTunes without regard for users, but to push the latest sector of product (films, streaming, whatever) and any fad likely to appeal to the (non Classical, obviously) mass market.

Probably easier if I PM you. I discovered it by accident and I'm not techie so I'll need to think how I can explain it!

Btw, I'm also moving away from iTunes and re-ripping my music in FLAC/Lossless, so I think we may have the same issues.

[HighlandDougie]

Like Beefy, access to music on the move is fundamentally important to me as I seem to spend quite a lot of hours sitting in planes. Because most of the music on my MacBooks is stored using i-Tunes (although I use Audirvana plus a decent DAC to play it back of which the best so far is a Chord Hugo) - and I'm fundamentally lazy - it's just too easy to transfer music from the i-Tunes library on a MacBook to my i-Phone. It has 128gb of storage space and it means that I only have to carry one device around with me. OK, it's stuck at 16/44, whereas the i-River AK 120 I also have is happy with 24/96 (and maybe 24/192) files. But mostly because the i-River android-based user interface is so clunky and irritating by comparison with i-Tunes, it just sits in a drawer. If, like me, you organise music as playlists, i-Tunes may be a bit crap but it's a lot more user-friendly than the i-River equivalent. With other mobile manufacturers jumping on the high-res bandwagon (HTC, for example) and Sony doing likewise with DAPs, it's just possible that Apple might move in the same direction, although no doubt whatever it might be would come at a price. But, partly to mitigate the shame of my lo-res listening (at least the files aren't MP3s), what does make the travelling i-Phone listening experience much more pleasurable is a decent pair of in-ear headphones. Having run the gamut of Shure, Etymotic, Klipsch, Musical Fidelity, Westone, B&O, Sennheiser, JVC and KEF, my current pair (Grado GR10 - alas, not cheap - plus Comply foam tips) are the most comfortable and best-sounding I've experienced so far. Music sounds better and becomes much more immersive. Indeed, and with apologies to the other half, they might even be the one thing I would save if the house went on fire.

[Anastasius]

,,,,, And Apple obviously give not a moments thought to classical music users, ,,,,.

Nor any other iPod/audio computery playback device. At least the iPod interface is better than the Brennan!

Reading other people's experiences makes interesting reading and it definitely is a case of 'horses for courses'. My iTunes library is virtually empty. Most of my listening is now done streaming via Qobuz and for my ears, listening location and equipment 320kbps is perfectly fine.

[Dave2002]

Probably easier if I PM you. I discovered it by accident and I'm not techie so I'll need to think how I can explain it!

Btw, I'm also moving away from iTunes and re-ripping my music in FLAC/Lossless, so I think we may have the same issues.

Are you (both) using Macs or PCs? I seem to remember JLW recommending Audirvana - http://audirvana.com/ Quite what DSD over PCM is (mentioned on that page) I don't fully know, though would probably only work with the FiiO X5 model or other DSD capable devices anyway. I also don't know much about all the DSD formats mentioned - : DSF, DSDIFF (including DST compressed), SACD ISO

[Richard Barrett]

if there is a way of organising non iTunes audio for classical music.

In an idle moment this afternoon I did actually discover and download a program called Metadatics which costs about a tenner and with which you can edit all your tags quite easily - the front end looks a bit like iTunes so there doesn't seem to be anything difficult to learn. This is for Mac OS but there must be similar things for other platforms. Now I know what I'll be doing in my next few idle moments!

[Cockney Sparrow]

Are you (both) using Macs or PCs?

I use a PC, whereas Beef Oven mentions using his Mac. I'm wary of committing to Apple/iTunes, for all I know I could be left high and dry by some high handed commercial decision of their's, having spent a lot of time editing metadata to suit iTunes.
So I'm very interested in quality players of FLACs etc and alternative music programs. Interested in what Beef Oven has found.

I'm not interested in anything beyond CD quality, and as I only have 2 ears, for a portable player, stereo will suffice (In fact, it suffices on my living room audio system as well.
I'll have a look at the programs mentioned in this thread, but I'm about to go abroad for 10 days, so I won't be able to re-visit this thread for a while.

[Richard Barrett]

I spoke too soon about the program I found - it seems to have changed some of the tags but not all. Not as easy as I thought!

[teamsaint]

There is an interesting new bottom of the range Kindle Fire, which might be good for music.

£50 and incorporates a micro SD slot.

anybody got any idea what the sound quality might be like via headphones on a Kindle, or via a stereo system?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00Y3TM6CO/ref=gw_d_LG9_JL_Tab_Fire?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=desktop-jeff-letter&pf_rd_r=0CBNJ089B520804289DA&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=697033867&pf_rd_i=desktop

[teamsaint]

Just had one of the new budget Kindle Fires delivered. £35, black friday special, probably makes me a bad person.

Anyhow, after a little bit of faffing about, have got my existing micro Sd cards playing very nicely theough the expansion slot, giving essentially unlimited music storage .
Sound seems very acceptable, display is at least big and reasonably user friendly.

Seems to satisfy my requirement for a user friendly alternative to my brilliant but tiny sansaclip.
Happy to take questions !!

[antongould]

M

Just had one of the new budget Kindle Fires delivered. £35, black friday special, probably makes me a bad person.

Anyhow, after a little bit of faffing about, have got my existing micro Sd cards playing very nicely theough the expansion slot, giving essentially unlimited music storage .
Sound seems very acceptable, display is at least big and reasonably user friendly.

Seems to satisfy my requirement for a user friendly alternative to my brilliant but tiny sansaclip.
Happy to take questions !!

Is it compatible with Apple Music or does one have to go up the Amazon?

[Stanfordian]

Everyone I've seen uses an iPhone for their music.