Philip Pickett sentenced to 11 years imprisonment

[Barbirollians]

No but as no other conductor was convicted and sent to prison for three years and nine months that year and the exact judicial sentencing remarks are quoted it is very clear who is referred to .

[Conchis]

An appalling story:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/01/i-couldnt-deal-with-it-it-tore-me-apart-surviving-child-sexual-abuse

[Old Grumpy]

And a very brave article.

[Richard Barrett]

And a very brave article.

Yes it is. Catching up with this thread I see that Orphical's early contribution hasn't really been followed up on - namely, since obviously it's better for these things not to happen in the first place than it is for their perpetrators to be punished, in many cases after being able to carry on their activities for a considerable period of years, how should we as a society talk about paedophilia and people who are drawn to it? Perhaps the stories that have come out as to how it has ruined lives, and the way victims are much more likely than in former times to speak out rather than suffering in silence, might activate the consciences of some of those people and make them think twice about putting their tendencies into practice. (I don't believe for one moment in the supposedly deterrent effect of jail sentences.) But what would one do if one began to realise that one harboured such tendencies oneself? Is there a case for regarding them as requiring some kind (what kind?) of medical treatment? I would have no idea how to start finding answers to questions like this.

Education in the "classical music" world is, unfortunately, set up so as to have made it very easy for paedophiles to do what they do - instrumental teaching in particular involves years of individual and necessarily rather close contact between teacher and pupil, establishing an intimacy and a kind of power relationship it's very easy to abuse if one is tempted in that direction. Composition teaching isn't exempt from this either, although in general it involves older students. I think this kind of relationship is somewhat different in nature from those occurring in other artistic disciplines, but I may be wrong about that.

[Conchis]

I notice that James Levine is not facing charges and seems unlikely to face charges at any time in the future.

The Met's policy seems to be to carry blithely on as if he had never been its Musical Director: which is amazing, when you consider his tenure spanned the seventies into the 2010s.

[richardfinegold]

I notice that James Levine is not facing charges and seems unlikely to face charges at any time in the future.

The Met's policy seems to be to carry blithely on as if he had never been its Musical Director: which is amazing, when you consider his tenure spanned the seventies into the 2010s.

I believe that Levine has a lawsuit pending against the Met, which may constrain them from open commenting.

[Dave2002]

An appalling story:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...d-sexual-abuse

Very sad indeed. Painful reading - and some aspects really worrying. Being good at music (or anything else, by the perpetrator) does not justify or excuse any such behaviour, or wishes to continue post release.

Definitely an article to read carefully - and not just skip over and dismiss it.

[doversoul1]

What is so appalling in the case of this particular conductor is that our society has and still does value his performance in the name of High Art above the wrecked lives of a few children; the lives he destroyed. I sincerely hope that this article will change the view but I’m not holding my breath, as there seems to be no such thing as decency where Art is concerned. And please don’t bring in Gesualdo. We are talking about the suffering of living persons.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I would have no idea how to start finding answers to questions like this.

Nor I. There must be research going on into this matter, but I suspect that such research is made impossibly (?) difficult by the fact that paedophilia affects a vast spectrum of "personality types", form individuals who keep their tendencies a matter of private fantasy, through those whose consciences would be moved to prevent them from committing criminal activities, to those predatory sociopaths who simply wouldn't give a shit about how their behaviour damages others as long as it gave them the thrill they were wanting.

And any medical treatment depends upon the individual - for the sociopathic side of the spectrum, of course, identifying that there is something that needs such treatment would lie with others, after a crime/crimes have taken place - as is the case with all predatory sex crimes, of course. And "what kind" of medical treatment? Wouldn't the sort of medication known as "chemical castration" require the consent (or some sort of "cooperation") of the individual concerned? Wouldn't their movements have to be monitored to ensure that the medication is administered/taken? And I'm not sure if this is the "enlightened attitude" Orphical had in mind in #29.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Education in the "classical music" world is, unfortunately, set up so as to have made it very easy for paedophiles to do what they do - instrumental teaching in particular involves years of individual and necessarily rather close contact between teacher and pupil, establishing an intimacy and a kind of power relationship it's very easy to abuse if one is tempted in that direction. Composition teaching isn't exempt from this either, although in general it involves older students. I think this kind of relationship is somewhat different in nature from those occurring in other artistic disciplines, but I may be wrong about that.

I would imagine Athletics trainers - and Ballet teachers - would have a similar kind of relationship?

Ian Pace came up with a set of Guidelines to protect students (and their teachers) which I thought had been posted earlier in the Thread, but which I cannot find now, so here it is "again". It's specifically addressed to teachers of students over 18, but much can be used as at least a starting place for teachers of kids of all ages:

Guidelines for Teachers

• In general, treat your student with respect as a human being, independently of your reflections on the quality and extent of their achievements as a performer. This should be borne in mind at all times.

• Remember that you are there to help the student, rather than their being there in order to enhance your own reputation.

• It is your choice how you wish your student to address you, whether by first name or title and surname. It is advised to clarify this to the student at the beginning of a lesson.

• Where there are serious problems concerning a student and their progress, you should try and discuss these with the relevant member of staff as soon as possible.

• It is accepted that teachers will naturally need to voice criticisms of a student’s playing or singing, sometimes severe criticisms. This should always be framed in such a way as to make clear that the criticisms relate solely to the student’s achievements (or lack of) specifically in terms of their work as a performer, not to their wider qualities as a person. Criticisms should be balanced with encouragement in the form of positive steps forward in order to improve.

• Use language which makes the above clear: for example, instead of saying ‘You are a very poor player’, say ‘You really do need to do considerable work in order to improve’, followed by suggestions of what form that work might take, or (if necessary) ‘It will be very difficult in the time available to you here to attain the level necessary in order to gain a high mark in your recital’. Similarly, avoid other generalities such as ‘You have no technique’ or ‘You are profoundly unmusical’, in favour of the likes of ‘I have to tell you that a good deal of work is necessary if you wish to achieve a higher technical level’, or in the second case, focusing on specific things the student needs to consider in order to be able to produce a more musically satisfying performance.

• You should always avoid any type of deliberately demeaning or belittling language of a personal nature towards a student, especially that designed to undermine their confidence. This can include undue and harsh sarcasm, deliberate aloofness and coldness, ignoring a student, negative comparisons with others, insensitive jokes, setting unrealistic demands, malicious rumour-mongering, threats, sexual or racial harassment, or anything which might be construed as ‘bitchy’. It is no justification for this to argue that such talk and attitudes are commonplace in the professional musical world.

• A student’s personal life is their own business, and discussions of this should generally only be undertaken when personal issues have a direct impact upon their performing. If a singer or other musician’s lifestyle – in terms of problems to do with sleep, maintaining good health, and so on – is impinging upon their singing, then it is legitimate to raise this issue. If a student raises the issue of difficulties arising from family, health or relationship issues, and wishes to talk about it, this is fine, but you should not feel under any obligation in this respect. In general, such matters are better discussed with the appropriate member of staff, who has pastoral responsibility, and who can communicate directly with you about them.

• When teaching a student, avoid befriending them on social media. [Personally I believe this is a principle worth observing for undergraduates, but which can be more flexible with postgraduates.]

• If you wish to make physical contact with a student in order to demonstrate some matter relating to performing, you must first ask their permission to do so. This can be done at the beginning of a series of lessons in order to facilitate so doing in general (but this must then be made clear to the student), or separately on individual occasion. If the student is unhappy with such physical contact and declines, this must be respected, and physical contact must then be avoided.

• Under absolutely no circumstances should there be any touching which can be construed as being of a sexual or unduly intimate nature.

• However, it is accepted that much music – especially for singers – relates to matters of an intimate and sometimes sexual nature, and it is legitimate to discuss this in lessons. But please always respect boundaries here, and be clear that you are talking about the music or the role, not directly about the student.

• Whilst in general conservatoire students are aged 18 or over and are technically adults, remember that they are still in a very early stage of adulthood, likely to be dealing with many pressures due to being away from home for the first time, having to negotiate possible loneliness, homesickness, coping with a degree of independence likely to be unprecedented for them, and of course a demanding course. It is best to work with the assumption that they are thus likely to be at a vulnerable stage in life, and should be treated with corresponding sensitivity.


Guidelines for Students

• You should always treat your teacher with respect and courtesy, be punctual for lessons, and acknowledge the help they are able to give you.

• Your teacher can choose how they wish you to address them, whether by first name, title and surname, or otherwise, and you should respect this. It is advised that this is clarified in the first lesson.

• Whilst you are certainly encouraged to solicit your teacher’s advice concerning the extent of your progress, or on future study, avoid asking such questions as ‘Do you think I can make it as a performer?’ or other such things which might put your teacher in a difficult position.

• If asking your teacher what they imagine would be your likely mark for a recital, on the basis of how you are performing at the time of asking the question, bear in mind that their answer will be an approximation, and is in no sense binding.

• Avoid flirtatious or overly ‘forward’ behaviour towards your teacher such as might place him or her in an awkward situation.

• Teachers may wish to make physical contact in order to demonstrate some matters relating to performance. They are required to ask your permission before so doing, either at the beginning of a series of lessons in order to establish that this is generally acceptable, or on individual occasions. If you do not wish this, you are entirely within your rights to refuse. Such physical contact should never be of a sexual or unduly intimate nature, nor should you respond to it in such a fashion.

• Never use any abusive or offensive language towards your teacher.

• When there are personal matters – for example relating to family, health or relationships – which might affect your performing, you are advised first to speak to your personal tutor, who can discuss these sensitively with your teacher.

• Your teacher often has a life and career outside of their work at your institution. Avoid gossiping about them, even amongst other students, including with respect to the nature of their other activities, as this can have the potential to be hurtful and demeaning. Any form of rumour-mongering, sexual or racial harassment, aggressive behaviour or threats towards your teacher will be treated with the utmost seriousness.

• Your teacher is not your friend on social media, and you should not request that they befriend you on there. [Personally I believe this is a principle worth observing for undergraduates, but which can be more flexible with postgraduates.]

• If you wish to record lessons for other reasons (so as to have a more permanent record for your own study purposes), you must ask your teacher first, and must also respect their wishes if they decline this request. (But see also Guidelines for both Teachers and Students below)


Guidelines for both Teachers and Students

• In the event of any serious worries about the nature of the relationship between teacher and student as made manifest verbally in lessons, either the teacher or student can request that the lessons be recorded. In this situation, the appropriate individual should be informed of this.

• In the event of any type of romantic or sexual liaison between a tutor and student – which can include any form of agency on either part with the intention of inducing such a thing, whether or not this is fulfilled – it is an essential requirement that both teacher and student report this to an appropriate individual. As a general rule it will be considered that in such a situation the relationship has assumed a degree of intimacy which is no longer compatible with a normal teaching relationship, and the student will be assigned to a different teacher, but without further consequences for either party.

[teamsaint]

Given the very great difficulties mentioned by RB and Ferney, that suggests to me that getting the more straightforward aspects , such as reasonable consistency in areas such as sentencing, rehabilitation into work and career ( radio 3 this means YOU) and so on is a good place to get to work.

[MrGongGong]

The sad message that this gives is that if you are wealthy, successful and in the "right" kind of culture then you can get treated as "special" and carry on with your life if you get found out

I wonder if all those who still enthusiastically buy CD's and go to concerts are still playing their Gary Glitter discs when their friends come round for a bop at the end of the week?

[doversoul1]

ferneyhoughgeliebte and Richard B

Do you not think that if this conductor had been a mere music teacher, employed or otherwise, the outcome would have been very different? Or a musician with much less status, like Philip Pickett, the original subject of this thread? The question we need to be asking here is about ourselves and not about the regulations (that is another matter).

[zola]

Do you not think that if this conductor had been a mere music teacher, employed or otherwise, the outcome would have been very different? Or a musician with much less status, like Philip Pickett, the original subject of this thread? The question we need to be asking here is about ourselves and not about the regulations (that is another matter).

There is this rather coy entry in wikipedia which dances around the circumstances behind the setting up and demise of this ensemble and what some may perceive as the indecent haste with which some flocked back to their original 'home' ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrospect_Ensemble

[french frank]

There is this rather coy entry in wikipedia which dances around the circumstances behind the setting up and demise of this ensemble and what some may perceive as the indecent haste with which some flocked back to their original 'home' ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrospect_Ensemble

Coy is not the word! I've added a sentence referring to the King's Consort article, where all details are given.