Philip Pickett sentenced to 11 years imprisonment

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Contra ferneyhoughgeliebte, I don't feel that death is the end of all criticism - the ongoing furore and ban on playing Wagner in Israel rather refutes that welcome idea.

Because there are still some people alive in Israel for whom Wagner's Music was what Camp officials would make them listen to. Fewer these days, of course - but that was why Musicians would respect the ban on this particular restriction on their "calling", and why Barenboim always forewarned audiences in Israel when he was going to include a Wagner piece as an encore. When the victims have all died, there will be a reconsideration.

[Master Jacques]

When the victims have all died, there will be a reconsideration.

I very much hope you are right. Though unfortunately Wagner's anti-semitic writings won't fade away when the last concentration camp victim dies. We are stuck with them.

Meanwhile, if your argument holds, there would seem to be no moral difference at this moment between listening to Wagner, listening to John Ireland, and listening to Carolyn Sampson and the Retrospect Ensemble in Bach's Ascension Oratorio. I am happy to risk moral opprobrium myself by listening to all of these, because they enhance my life - and that had better be my final contribution to this increasingly unappetising thread.

(Except to clarify that I wasn't accusing Wagner or Gesualdo of molesting children.)

[Mal]

As the offences for which he was imprisoned took place decades before, when he was little older than a child himself...

"In the summer of 1987, when I was 11, my mother took me and my siblings on holiday to Europe. My father was working abroad at the time, as he often did. In Bruges, we came across a grand exhibition of musical instruments, where I was thrilled to have the chance to try out a harpsichord. While I played, a man approached my mother and told her I was gifted. He said he was a conductor..."

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/01/i-couldnt-deal-with-it-it-tore-me-apart-surviving-child-sexual-abuse

That makes him 27 when this grooming started. Is this "iittle older than a child"?

[teamsaint]

I am interested you describe arts performance as an "industry". Some of us would think of it, rather, as a "calling": and as with many victims of a calling, the likes of Carolyn Sampson and the ex-Retrospective players don't make a fortune. They do not have the luxury of "choosing" who they work with, unfortunately, and have to scrape by while they've got the skills to do so, supplementing their meagre incomes with teaching children and other related work.

Music is of course a calling for many, but of course the industry is very significant, and has power to influence careers and public personas.
I have previously thought about the effect on those with less economic clout, and am well aware that most musicians put together modest incomes from portfolio careers. No doubt this applies to most members of Retrospect, but as something of a star soloist , I would have thought that Sampson probably makes a very comfortable living, with a choice if engagements, happy to be put right on this though. And many of us have moral choices to make, which are not always comfortable, or cost free.We certainly do in my work.

I’ll try to respond on Ireland after a bit more gardening, though I think Ferney has probably covered it.

[Barbirollians]

You don't have to imagine:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/01/i-couldnt-deal-with-it-it-tore-me-apart-surviving-child-sexual-abuse

The Daily Mail highlighted King's ongoing support from the public school boy establishment, but did not suggest he should be "strung up and crucified":

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2357693/Conductor-jailed-sexually-abusing-choir-boys-star-concert-hosted-Prince-Charles-charity.html

"‘It is as if nothing has happened,’ said Peter Saunders, of the National Association for People Abused in Childhood. ‘He made these teenagers’ lives a misery – the trauma continues for them. I can’t believe that the Royal family or their charities would have anything to do with him.’"

One parishioner ... said she was ‘shocked’ about King’s background. ‘I had absolutely no idea. You wouldn’t want Gary Glitter playing at your church, would you?’

So there's the Christian response: "not in my church". This seems reasonable! Not in my house, not in my concert hall, not on my CD player.

Agreed

[Barbirollians]

Thank you, teamsaint for your thoughts on "fine judgements". Though you still don't tell me what your "fine judgement" bids you to do, when it comes to listening (or not) to John Ireland. Contra ferneyhoughgeliebte, I don't feel that death is the end of all criticism - the ongoing furore and ban on playing Wagner in Israel rather refutes that welcome idea.

The powers that be took the sensible line with King, that in order to pursue his career, he had to be allowed to work with children again. As the offences for which he was imprisoned took place decades before, when he was little older than a child himself, they took a sensible and humane view on the case.

I am interested you describe arts performance as an "industry". Some of us would think of it, rather, as a "calling": and as with many victims of a calling, the likes of Carolyn Sampson and the ex-Retrospective players don't make a fortune. They do not have the luxury of "choosing" who they work with, unfortunately, and have to scrape by while they've got the skills to do so, supplementing their meagre incomes with teaching children and other related work.

I hope he is chaperoned to the hilt. Anyone defending him after reading the Yarwood article has a very skewed moral compass.

He was 27 when he started grooming the 11 year old Yarwood.I consider his sentence as very lenient and I think far from being sensible he should have been banned from working with children again.

If he had been a music teacher in a school rather than famous choral conductor I have little doubt he would have received both a lifetime ban and a much longer sentence.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Before rushing to condemn King and others out of hand, might it be worth considering that a lot of child abusers were themselves abused as children?

(I have no information as to whether this is or isn't a factor in the cases in point.)

[Bryn]

I hope he is chaperoned to the hilt. Anyone defending him after reading the Yarwood article has a very skewed moral compass.

He was 27 when he started grooming the 11 year old Yarwood.I consider his sentence as very lenient and I think far from being sensible he should have been banned from working with children again.

If he had been a music teacher in a school rather than famous choral conductor I have little doubt he would have received both a lifetime ban and a much longer sentence.

Loath as I am to cite the Daily 'Hurrah for the Blackshirts' Mail, I think this might be worthy of a read regarding school teachers. Different times, to be sure, but the point about afairs between teacher and pupils is illuminating.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2332172/EXCLUSIVE-Paedophile-choirmaster-Michael-Brewer-victim-killed-stripped-OBE.html

[Richard Barrett]

Before rushing to condemn King and others out of hand, might it be worth considering that a lot of child abusers were themselves abused as children?

Nobody is condemning him "out of hand". Indeed it's well known that many abusers were themselves abused, but for an intelligent and sensitive person in that situation (if he is) not to set his mind on breaking the cycle is still not excusable.

[MrGongGong]

There is far too much politeness going on IMV
How about people do the same for rape victims ?

[oddoneout]

I hope he is chaperoned to the hilt. Anyone defending him after reading the Yarwood article has a very skewed moral compass.

He was 27 when he started grooming the 11 year old Yarwood.I consider his sentence as very lenient and I think far from being sensible he should have been banned from working with children again.

If he had been a music teacher in a school rather than famous choral conductor I have little doubt he would have received both a lifetime ban and a much longer sentence.

This is the bit that puzzles me. When I was a school governor we had a case of a teacher(not music) who was found guilty of various sex related offences with 3 teenage female pupils. The period involved was a few months. He received a much longer sentence than King and is subject to an indefinite ban on working with children.

[doversoul1]

[/B]

This is the bit that puzzles me. When I was a school governor we had a case of a teacher(not music) who was found guilty of various sex related offences with 3 teenage female pupils. The period involved was a few months. He received a much longer sentence than King and is subject to an indefinite ban on working with children.

This is exactly what Mr GG has been banging his Gong about and some of us joining in. Why is our society/culture allowing King to be such an exception?

[MrGongGong]

[/B]

This is the bit that puzzles me. When I was a school governor we had a case of a teacher(not music) who was found guilty of various sex related offences with 3 teenage female pupils. The period involved was a few months. He received a much longer sentence than King and is subject to an indefinite ban on working with children.

It's who you know and it's clear that the law doesn't apply equally to everyone
if King had been Johnathan as opposed to Robert then what?

Hiding behind politeness and appearing "cultured" is a well-known strategy for many with obnoxious views or behaviours

Like many musicians I have come accross people who have done these kinds of things, I have refused to work with folks because of it. Principles cost BUT having spent much time working with vulnerable children and adults it is more important that THEY have a chance at a functional life than some over paid abuser gets any more credibility by association.

[Stanfordian]

This is exactly what Mr GG has been banging his Gong about and some of us joining in. Why is our society/culture allowing King to be such an exception?

It's puzzling why he seems to have had relatively short sentence compared to some.

[Bryn]

It's puzzling why he seems to have had relatively short sentence compared to some.

Could it possibly be partly due to the fact that it was boys, rather than girls, he sexually molested?