HSBC's Swiss branch

[ardcarp]

Following the breaking news story (another one) about tax-dodging, I found myself ROTFLMAO (in an ironic sort of way you understand) when HSBC released this statement:

The bank said it now puts compliance and tax transparency ahead of profitability.

Only a banker sitting atop his ivory tower could think that constitutes any sort of excuse, let alone an apology. Isn't the word 'now' a bit of a giveaway? Moreover, do we believe them?

My accountant regularly sucks his teeth and shakes his head at my self-employed costs of travel, clothing, food, use of room as workplace, etc, etc, probably amounting to a few hundred quid. The rich guys are frankly stuffing the rest of us; and all the main political parties know about it..so worry not. This isn't a political post!

[Frances_iom]

... The rich guys are frankly stuffing the rest of us; and all the main political parties know about it..so worry not....

The boss at the time, now ordained in CofE after a spell as trade minister, was obviously strictly following the New Testament injunction " to he that has shall be given" - as the famous quote goes "only little people pay tax".

[ahinton]

Following the breaking news story (another one) about tax-dodging, I found myself ROTFLMAO (in an ironic sort of way you understand) when HSBC released this statement:

The bank said it now puts compliance and tax transparency ahead of profitability.

Only a banker sitting atop his ivory tower could think that constitutes any sort of excuse, let alone an apology. Isn't the word 'now' a bit of a giveaway? Moreover, do we believe them?

My accountant regularly sucks his teeth and shakes his head at my self-employed costs of travel, clothing, food, use of room as workplace, etc, etc, probably amounting to a few hundred quid. The rich guys are frankly stuffing the rest of us; and all the main political parties know about it..so worry not. This isn't a political post!

It now puts compliance and tax transparency ahead of profitability in the way that some people put the cart before the horse after the stable door has bolted, I suspect. Do we believe this? Well, I fo one do not, even if for no better reason than that HSBC, like every other bank, exists at least in part to generate profits for its shareholders, to the extent that, if it ceased to do so or did so less on the alleged grounds that it had come to believe that it had other more important things to do, the shareholders would up sticks, sell their shares and invest the proceeds elsewhere.

Yes, "now" does indeed seem like something of a giveaway, to the extent that HSBC appears to be seeking to claim that it is "now" doing what it is only after and because of having been found out. That said, whatever HSBC might do or claim to do "now" on such matters, there will continue to be outlets for thos who wish to avoid and/or evade taxes and conceal what might otherwise be their liabilities for taxes somewhere until and unless there is wholesale and effective international agreement that no nation shall be a haven for its own taxes or those of any other nation; even then, there will always be the get-out provided by diffeent nations having different tax régimes and rates and one has only to look at differing rates of corporation tax which are bound to encourage relocations (be they real or "on-paper" only) in order to economise on liabilities thereto, not to mention the attraction of régimes where all taxation is lower than in most others, the nearest to UK being Isle of Man where, as billionaires taxed thereunder pay the same as millionaires, there's not even any need to be non-transparent or to made efforts to avoid/evade tax because the government does all of that for you.

[ahinton]

The boss at the time, now ordained in CofE after a spell as trade minister, was obviously strictly following the New Testament injunction " to he that has shall be given" - as the famous quote goes "only little people pay tax".

Or, to put it rather more honestly, "little and large people each pay little tax" provided that they're taxed in a country that has the kind of taxation régime that IOM does!

[Stillhomewardbound]

Does anyone believe for a moment a sentiment such as 'well, y'know ... I was a bit loose with the old rules and regs back in those days, but NOT ANYMORE!! Nah, more than my life's worth it. Yeah, I'm proper legit now, all the way'.

If they were at it then, there are it still. Just behind a different door, that's all, IMO!

And what are we make of the statistic that HMRC investigated 11,000 individuals leading to the prosecution of just 1 person????!!!!

[Serial_Apologist]

Does anyone believe for a moment a sentiment such as 'well, y'know ... I was a bit loose with the old rules and regs back in those days, but NOT ANYMORE!! Nah, more than my life's worth it. Yeah, I'm proper legit now, all the way'.

If they were at it then, there are it still. Just behind a different door, that's all, IMO!

And what are we make of the statistic that HMRC investigated 11,000 individuals leading to the prosecution of just 1 person????!!!!

We were warning about one law for the rich, another for the poor, 4 decades ago, and being called troublemakers. The myth that we are all equal under the law dies hard in our free democratic society - and yet, there are people on this forum prepared to deny there being such a thing as the ruling class!

[mercia]

not quite sure what the figure of 11,000 represents.

today ....... Ms Homer, the chief executive of HMRC, explained why there had been only one prosecution of someone whose hidden accounts in Switzerland had been revealed. She said that most of the information leaked via the French authorities in 2010, which involved about 3,600 UK individuals, was incomplete or "dirty" data. Of these, 3,200 individuals had been traced and of the 1,100 most serious cases, which HMRC had chosen to pursue, only 130 were now outstanding. From the rest of those cases, £135m had been recovered, Ms Homer said. "We were speedy and on the case," she told the MPs. She explained that in fact, two-thirds of the total group of UK-based HSBC account holders "were found to be compliant" with UK tax rules, in some cases because they had non-dom status.

[eighthobstruction]

Well I hope that it is HSBC that is in charge of the 2-4% Pensioner Bonds <they seem very good at dealing with peoples money> otherwise this ELECTIONEERING OAP BONUS will be paid for by the Nation as a whole - should the economy go belly up....

[ahinton]

We were warning about one law for the rich, another for the poor, 4 decades ago, and being called troublemakers. The myth that we are all equal under the law dies hard in our free democratic society - and yet, there are people on this forum prepared to deny there being such a thing as the ruling class!

Yes, there are - and I make no apology for being one of them. In so saying, however, I do not seek to undermine - and indeed I do not undermine - your point here; my concern about the use of the phrase "the ruling class" in this particular context is that what's really meant by it is "the rich class" - or, more accurately, rich individuals and corporations (because merely having their wealth in common does not bind ALL of them by precisely the same conditions, circumstances and aims as though members of a single "class") - and not all rich people and corporations "rule", or desire to "rule" in any case, just as not all rulers are rich. That fact makes no difference to your argument, to the extent that one law for the rich and another for the poor pertains not so much because there ARE such different and differently applied laws per se but because some of the rich can covertly and overtly flout laws designed for everyone and get away with so doing just because they ARE rich. So - no applause for that, of course, but no - no "ruling class" here either, I'm afraid!

[Stillhomewardbound]

not quite sure what the figure of 11,000 represents.

Mea Culpa ... I should have said 1,100. The addition of an extra 0 was in error.

[EnemyoftheStoat]

A while back a (strikingly inarticulate) manager from a certain bank that has been caught out in a big way did a "voice of the customer" thing at my place of work. It amounted to a whinge about how new compliance regulations were making life oh so difficult and how it was all so unfair...

[Serial_Apologist]

https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/Peter-Oborne

[ardcarp]

furthermore:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31510152

Good for him.