Retirement

[Dave2002]

Statins can provide remarkable protection so it is worth soldiering on, perhaps having a brief break to see if the side-effects are genuinely from the statin, or trying an alternative statin.

One of the Michael Moseley programmes (earlier series) "Trust me, I'm a doctor" dealt with this issue. From what I learned from that programme some people really are affected quite badly. Also, it sounds as though the benefits might be less pronounced for younger people, so that the balance of benefits vs side effects changes as one gets older. Moseley's conclusion wasn't definite advice, but seemed to veer towards "consider statins more seriously as you get older".

As often with medical matters, I think that different people may get very different benefits and side effects from some treatments. I don't want to have 'flu jabs, though I've looked at the statistical evidence which I was able to find, and it is clear that overall - for the bulk of a population - they are effective and a good thing. However, I did have a couple, and I'm sure that I was unpleasantly unwell for some time afterwards. I would not willingly repeat that unless I was feeling very fit beforehand. I have also heard of people who had a really bad reaction, and were hospitalised. What is good "on average" for a population is not necessarily good for individuals within the population.

[jean]

...I have also heard of people who had a really bad reaction...

My sister did. I wouldn't touch them.

[DracoM]

Dave2002

Completely endorse your suspicious reactions to flu jabs. Exactly mine and for the same reason.

[P. G. Tipps]

But the speaker is not saying that Buddleigh Salterton was "completely unknown" to them is s/he? It is quite possible that, having heard of Buddleigh Salterton (having seen a production of Blithe Spirit, for example) s/he has registered the existence of such a place, but neglected to inform him/herself of its whereabouts. I know that there is a place in Scotland called Bannockburn, but, to my embarrassment, I have never looked in an Atlas for its location.

Yes, that is possible, but at least you have heard of Bannockburn and you know it is in Scotland. So you are indeed not completely ignorant. In other words you have a semblance of an idea.

However, ahinton confessed to having absolutely 'no idea' so the chances of him knowing anything at all about the matter are remote indeed?

I do think we should take ahinton at his word here.

If the "so" is meant to suggest a logical sequence from your first paragraph to your second, then your (for want of a better word) "argument" is unfounded.

On the contrary it clearly establishes it, at least on the planet which I inhabit.

[ahinton]

Wow, a lot of questions there, ahinton, and in the interests of brevity I'll try and make the answers relatively snappy!

a) The problem there is that if any financial adviser ever put my financial interests before his/her own he/she would never survive long enough to advise on finance in the first place?

Why so? They would not just be advising you in any case, so they would not be dependent solely on you as a client!

b) I don't see why not ... personal financial planning is not rocket-science, and when it comes to MY money I'd prefer be the final judge when it comes to where to invest it.

No, it isn't "rocket science", since that is more to do with astronomy than with financial planning, but it is a complex minefield in which, as with lawyers, accountants, doctors &c., years of training and study as well as subsequent experience in the field are required in order for anyone to be able to provide proper financial planning advice; there are not regulated qualifications, including universtiy degrees, in that subject for nothing! If you think that you can do better than the professionals, more fool you. Would you seek professional medical advice if you thought that you needed it or would you consult books, the internet and the like and try to treat yourself? If the latter, then I most sincerely hope that you do not fall ill.

c) I don't run a business and/or aim to appear in court anytime soon

That's hardly the point; should you be sued or need to sue someone, would you just go ahead and conduct all of this yourself or would you consult legal professionals?

a) I've never been self-employed. If I were I'd make the necessary enquiries.

But plenty of people are and have been - and those who have never also been employed will not have had any kind of workplace pension. "The necessary enquiries" could not therefore be made of an employer in any case so, had you been self-employed, those would need to be made of a professional in financial planning.

b) My employer(s) would be a pretty rum lot if they weren't aware of my individual circumstances. Choices for those retiring are all open and above board for those to study at leisure. I'm sure Caliban, for example, will listen to every bit of 'expert advice' and then come to his own decision. I know I would, wouldn't you?

You employer knows all about your financial circumstances? Why? And are you so sure of that? Remember that your employer is/was there to employ you to do whatever it was that you do/did, not to offer you advice about your personal financial affairs.

There is indeed a valid argument for not merely accepting and acting upon the advice of the first professional whom you consult, of course, but any financial planner worthy of the name will not in any case start off by giving you advice; they must first complete a detailed fact find, having asked you all relevant questions about your fionancial affairs, your needs and aspirations, &c. and then prepare an initial unbiased report that will provide a detailed analysis of your current situation and outline the options open to you. You would expect to be charged a fee for this work but this would place you under no obligation then to seek further advice or to take up any of the possible options outlined in the report. Should you decide to proceed with any or all such options, you would then instruct the adviser to prepare a recommendation report which would again place you under no obligation other than to pay the fee for its preparation and submission and he/she could then implement the actions that you decide to take once you have read and considered this report. At all stages, the decisions are yours to make, not those of the adviser.

what makes you think I was somehow blissfully unaware of any of this when I retired, ahinton? Certainly the last person I would listen to for any financial guidance would be the UK Chancellor of Exchequer

Well, at least that shows good sense on your part! - not, of course, that it is Mr Osborne's job to provide you with personal guidance on your financial affairs and I did not suggest that he would do this; I merely pointed out that the world of pensions has become vastly more complex in recent times as a direct consequence of rafts of new legislation. Pensions are not in any case solely for retirement, as was once widely thought. Many people vest pensions while they are still working. There are other in any case investment vehicles that can be used in retirement planning besides pensions.

While those who do so make seem like fools to you, ahinton, everyone's circumstances are different.

They are indeed - which is why people need to consult the professionals, just as they would with lawyers, doctors, accountants &c. rather than assume that they know better than any or all of them.

In any case, I'd NEVER put my own financial future in the hands of others.

But you already do! You employer paid you a salary and presumably put you in some kind of workplace pension scheme. You have presumably held and still hold various financial products, including bank accounts, credit cards, insurance policies, investments and the like so, whether you seek professional financial advice or whether you try to do it all yourself, your financial future will always be in the hands of others because you put it there, as you hav no option but to do. To that extent, it makes no difference whether the decisions that you make as to how you do this at any given time were made with or without independent advice, your financial future will remain with whomsoever you trust with your money at any given time.

I'm a bit too worldy-wise for that now, I'm afraid, even if I do exist on a quite different planet from you and jean!

Worldliness and wisdom are not synonymous, as you appear to have deluded yourself into thinking!

It's up to you what you do, of course, but people who don't see the doctor when they need to, or have an accountant do their accounts when that's necessary, or to consult lawyers when you need to involve yourself in something that requires their services (even if that's only conveyancing, will preparation and the like) are far more likely to fall foul of their hopes for their health, tax and legal affairs and the like.

[ahinton]

I do think we should take ahinton at his word here.

But not on anything else, apparently...

[ahinton]

My sister did. I wouldn't touch them.

That's your prerogative, of course, but not only are different people's reactions to most drugs far from identical, it is also the case that the fact that one particular statin has adverse side-effects is not necessarily indicative that they all would.

[jean]

The reaction I referred to there was to a 'flu jab, not statins. And my reasons for giving 'flu jabs a wide berth include the fact that I've probably never had 'flu in my life (the sort of feverish cold people think of as 'flu almost certainly isn't).

[ahinton]

The reaction I referred to there was to a 'flu jab, not statins. And my reasons for giving 'flu jabs a wide berth include the fact that I've probably never had 'flu in my life (the sort of feverish cold people think of as 'flu almost certainly isn't).

No, indeed it isn't - and in any case your decision is yours alone to make - but the fact of your good fortune in never having had 'flu of any kind can be no guarantee that you will go through the remainder of your life free from it (although of course I hope that you do), any more than a 'flu jab itself can offer a 100% guarantee that everyone who has it will not succumb to some form of 'flu at some point.

[jean]

...your good fortune in never having had 'flu of any kind...

It's not good fortune, it's the fact that I have the constitution of an ox (why an ox, I wonder?)

[ahinton]

It's not good fortune, it's the fact that I have the constitution of an ox (why an ox, I wonder?)

Bad luck of that kind might neverthless befall even those with the strongest constitution, though. As to your question, I have less than no idea, after all, no one ever claims that Britain, for example, has the (unwritten) constitution of an ox, surely?...

[vinteuil]

... no one ever claims that Britain, for example, has the (unwritten) constitution of an ox, surely?...

... and yet, our Laws are ultimately written on calf skins

[P. G. Tipps]

Why so? They would not just be advising you in any case, so they would not be dependent solely on you as a client!

Are you inferring then that the financial "expert" would look after his/her own interests first and foremost regarding everyone else, but would very generously make an exception in my case? Have you a telephone number?

No, it isn't "rocket science", since that is more to do with astronomy than with financial planning, but it is a complex minefield in which, as with lawyers, accountants, doctors &c., years of training and study as well as subsequent experience in the field are required in order for anyone to be able to provide proper financial planning advice; there are not regulated qualifications, including universtiy degrees, in that subject for nothing! If you think that you can do better than the professionals, more fool you. Would you seek professional medical advice if you thought that you needed it or would you consult books, the internet and the like and try to treat yourself? If the latter, then I most sincerely hope that you do not fall ill.

Financial investments are not a science, ahinton, they are very much a gamble of sorts. All carry risk to a greater or lesser degree. The first financial expert that comes along and says he/she will guarantee my investment in a signed legal document I promise to let you know!

That's hardly the point; should you be sued or need to sue someone, would you just go ahead and conduct all of this yourself or would you consult legal professionals?

That's precisely the point! Of course I would consult legal professionals in such circumstances. However, even legal professionals cannot predict the future of investments. My guess is as good as theirs and, from my own personal experience, sometimes even better!

But plenty of people are and have been - and those who have never also been employed will not have had any kind of workplace pension. "The necessary enquiries" could not therefore be made of an employer in any case so, had you been self-employed, those would need to be made of a professional in financial planning.

I see plenty of offers regarding self-employed pensions in the press. I'm sure I would have the ability to make enquiries for myself if I were self-employed. I would them make up my own mind on the available evidence and the experience of others in my position.

You employer knows all about your financial circumstances? Why? And are you so sure of that? Remember that your employer is/was there to employ you to do whatever it was that you do/did, not to offer you advice about your personal financial affairs.

That has not been my experience when employed, ahinton. My employers were always quick and ready to offer unsolicited financial advice ... some of which I accepted and the rest graciously declined!

There is indeed a valid argument for not merely accepting and acting upon the advice of the first professional whom you consult, of course, but any financial planner worthy of the name will not in any case start off by giving you advice; they must first complete a detailed fact find, having asked you all relevant questions about your fionancial affairs, your needs and aspirations, &c. and then prepare an initial unbiased report that will provide a detailed analysis of your current situation and outline the options open to you. You would expect to be charged a fee for this work but this would place you under no obligation then to seek further advice or to take up any of the possible options outlined in the report. Should you decide to proceed with any or all such options, you would then instruct the adviser to prepare a recommendation report which would again place you under no obligation other than to pay the fee for its preparation and submission and he/she could then implement the actions that you decide to take once you have read and considered this report. At all stages, the decisions are yours to make, not those of the adviser.

And if I accept, and my money quite possibly goes down the swanee on the 'expert's' paid advice, what happens then, ahinton ... ?

Well, at least that shows good sense on your part! - not, of course, that it is Mr Osborne's job to provide you with personal guidance on your financial affairs and I did not suggest that he would do this; I merely pointed out that the world of pensions has become vastly more complex in recent times as a direct consequence of rafts of new legislation. Pensions are not in any case solely for retirement, as was once widely thought. Many people vest pensions while they are still working. There are other in any case investment vehicles that can be used in retirement planning besides pensions.

I feel confident that most members will already know all that ...

They are indeed - which is why people need to consult the professionals, just as they would with lawyers, doctors, accountants &c. rather than assume that they know better than any or all of them.

That is precisely where we disagree when it comes to deciding where I should put my hard-earned cash, ahinton!

But you already do! You employer paid you a salary and presumably put you in some kind of workplace pension scheme. You have presumably held and still hold various financial products, including bank accounts, credit cards, insurance policies, investments and the like so, whether you seek professional financial advice or whether you try to do it all yourself, your financial future will always be in the hands of others because you put it there, as you hav no option but to do. To that extent, it makes no difference whether the decisions that you make as to how you do this at any given time were made with or without independent advice, your financial future will remain with whomsoever you trust with your money at any given time.

My employer and bank are both my own choices and I don't need a legal professional to help me decide on either. I feel exactly the same about financial investments!

Worldliness and wisdom are not synonymous, as you appear to have deluded yourself into thinking!

Indeed, though a lifelong experience in business might just increase the likelihood of gaining a bit more wisdom at least when it comes to looking after my money!

It's up to you what you do, of course, but people who don't see the doctor when they need to, or have an accountant do their accounts when that's necessary, or to consult lawyers when you need to involve yourself in something that requires their services (even if that's only conveyancing, will preparation and the like) are far more likely to fall foul of their hopes for their health, tax and legal affairs and the like.

There you go again ... Caliban is retiring not going through a complete physical and emotional crisis, ahinton. At least I hope not.

[Richard Tarleton]

... and yet, our Laws are ultimately written on calf skins

See today's Times - the govt have decided to stick with vellum, after threatening to switch to paper - it's cost-effective apparently. The lifespan of archival paper is only 500 years. Skin of stillborn calves best of all.

[vinteuil]

See today's Times - the govt have decided to stick with vellum, after threatening to switch to paper - it's cost-effective apparently. The lifespan of archival paper is only 500 years. Skin of stillborn calves best of all.

... yes : and it was only following this saga that I learnt the correct distinction between vellum [ = calves (think 'veal')] and parchment [ = sheep or goats]. Tho' now-a-days the usage is blurred :sigh emoticon: