Choral Evensong service halted by buskers mid-way at Bath Abbey

[mercia]

yes I wasn't meaning the cathedrals in either Chester or Manchester but of churches in precincts where buskers are likely to be - St Ann's in Manchester and that church in Watergate (?) in Chester. But if anyone can give me examples where amplified buskers are pitched outside cathedrals I'm happy to be informed.

I think all I'm trying to say is that the potential for conflict seems greater in Bath than anywhere else I can think of (at the moment). No city-centred cathedral can exclude noise from traffic, police sirens etc.

[MrGongGong]

That's what I didn't understand.

One might argue that hiding all these attacks on the Church somewhere where few will see them would be a kindness.

"ALL" these "attacks" ?
is sarcasm an "attack" ?

hummmmm

I'm sure the church is more than able to defend itself

[Flosshilde]

Well in the case where similar levels of sound from buskers elsewhere, as measured inside and outside premises, were unproblematical, it could suggest that the authorities in Bath Abbey have a specific attitude problem towards buskers.

It would suggest nothing of the sort. It would mean that the authorities and some worshippers felt that the noise coming from buskers outside was an intrusion on their activities.

I'd be interested in what you mean by "a specific attitude problem", given that people use the term "attitude" to disparage or dismiss people.

[jean]

yes I wasn't meaning the cathedrals in either Chester or Manchester but of churches in precincts where buskers are likely to be - St Ann's in Manchester and that church in Watergate (?) in Chester.

Yes, sorry, I misread your post.

St Ann's in Manchester is a good example of a church with paved space outside it and shoppers nearby, where buskers might find it profitable to gather. They have concerts there as well as services I believe but as I don't go to Manchester oftener than I have to I can't tell you if there are problems of the sort we've been discussing.

I don't think any of the churches in the centre of Chester have space around them in the same way.

But if anyone can give me examples where amplified buskers are pitched outside cathedrals I'm happy to be informed.

Me too.

[Honoured Guest]

in terms of comparing the Bath 'situation' to other cathedral cities, isn't Bath somewhat unique?

Bath Abbey is a parish church, and neither a cathedral nor an abbey. It was an abbey for its first ten or so years, but then Henry VIII sacked it.

[jean]

There's a special thread for pointless pedantry, HG.

But you should be aware that though not a cathedral, Bath does have a share in a bishop.

[Serial_Apologist]

It would suggest nothing of the sort. It would mean that the authorities and some worshippers felt that the noise coming from buskers outside was an intrusion on their activities.

What I meant was an attitude to buskers peculiar to Bath Abbey, justified or not; but since the idea of measurable nuisance would seem to have been ruled out by the majority in this discussion, having nothing further to go on I rest my case.

I'd be interested in what you mean by "a specific attitude problem", given that people use the term "attitude" to disparage or dismiss people.

Do they?? I only ever use "attitude problem" to describe people with negative or demeaning attitudes towards others they consider undesirable for reasons best known to themselves.

[Petrushka]

The solution to this problem could not be simpler. At times of church services, buskers do not play outside the Abbey; at other times they are free to do so.

Honour is satisfied on both sides and everybody goes away happy. It's about showing consideration for others and it looks to me as if the two buskers in question were on a wind-up mission.

Can't believe it's taken to 218 posts to come up with the bleedin' obvious.

[jean]

It hasn't taken to 218 posts - this obvious solution has been put forward by one poster or another at regular intervals during the course of this thread.

[Petrushka]

It hasn't taken to 218 posts - this obvious solution has been put forward by one poster or another at regular intervals during the course of this thread.

I know really but thought I'd state it again to see if anyone takes any notice this time round

[mercia]

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/23/bath-buskers-fight-threat-ban-amplified-music-abbey

there certainly seems to be some anecdotal discrepancy as to exactly how much sound penetrated the abbey on the latest occasion but I guess the Rev is pretty much at the end of his tether after 3+ years of it
looks like as of next month the council will be able to invoke a new law which will see all amplification banned in the vicinity
I think if I were Rev. Mason, long before now I would have set up loudspeakers and transmitted evensong into the piazza - a bit provocative perhaps but within his rights (?)
If I were in the queue for the Roman baths I might like to hear a bit of Stanford in B flat just as much as Brijover troubled waters

[Alison]

Wouldn't it get interesting if the two obstinate buskers were to offer the same disturbance levels to ol' Gongers every concert/gig/workshop.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Wouldn't it get interesting if the two obstinate buskers were to offer the same disturbance levels to ol' Gongers every concert/gig/workshop.

Oh, I think MrGG's creativity and imagination would easily cope with incorporating any "extraneous" sounds into his Music-making.

Be more interesting to see the reactions if any buskers ("obstinate" or otherwise) were to perform outside a Mosque ...

[MrGongGong]

The solution to this problem could not be simpler. At times of church services, buskers do not play outside the Abbey; at other times they are free to do so.

Honour is satisfied on both sides and everybody goes away happy. It's about showing consideration for others and it looks to me as if the two buskers in question were on a wind-up mission.

Can't believe it's taken to 218 posts to come up with the bleedin' obvious.

The question IMV is more to do with WHO decides this ?
Which is part of the interesting bit about who owns the air and so on and how far people should compromise?

Personally speaking, I wouldn't programme a performance of quiet music in a location that had loud extraneous noise

and interesting things about the "fragility" of some musics

The Abbey could take the opportunity to commission something that would include the sounds from outside ? Alvin Curran's Maritime Rites did this in London a few years ago with the bellringers of St Pauls, LSO brass, Improv group on a boat and hundreds of wind players on the wobbly bridge outside Tate Modern

Wouldn't it get interesting if the two obstinate buskers were to offer the same disturbance levels to ol' Gongers every concert/gig/workshop.

How lovely
I wonder what those levels are ?

[french frank]

The question IMV is more to do with WHO decides this ?

That's YV: for others it would be WHAT decides it? Answer, as many of us have been repeating here, endlessly, and in Petrushka's words: the bleeding obvious.

For you, the issue is WHO decides, and that has been obvious too.

If the thread continues to DOMINATE the What's New? list, I may decide the Basement is a preferable place