Choral Evensong service halted by buskers mid-way at Bath Abbey

[jean]

...Unreasonableness takes many forms. Attitudes included.

Even less susceptible to an objective definition, in that case.

[Serial_Apologist]

Even less susceptible to an objective definition, in that case.

I would have thought that holding, for example sexist attitudes, is unreasonable.

[jean]

I wouldn't attempt to use unreasonableness as an argument against sexism, though -far too woolly and subjective. I'd get shot down and I'd deserve it.

[jean]

In London Camden is involved. I would be surprised if the problem is restricted to either place.

I have missed links to this on this thread.

But as far as I've been able to discover through my own research, the wicked Camden Council with some nefarious agenda not unconnected with its historic right to tell people what to do is proposing to license buskers, and the lovely Boris Johnson is championing their right to play unlicensed whenever and whereever they want.

Is that it?

But we never had a thread on it and we're never going to, which rather proves my point I think.

[amateur51]

There is no objective definition of unreasonableness.


Oh please! As I and others have repeatedly noted, we are only discussing this matter in these terms because the Church is involved.

Oh I agree.

It is only because the Church is involved that it hasn't been despatched to the Basement

[jean]

I hope ff understands what you mean by that, because I don't!

[amateur51]

I hope ff understands what you mean by that, because I don't!

fairy nuff

[french frank]

I smell an agenda here.

In that case it's an agenda that could equally apply to the two (TWO) buskers who didn't agree, as the rest has done, to avoid playing during services.

No evidence whatsoever to assume that one side has an agenda, and an 'attitude problem', but the other hasn't. It's Ockam's Razor, isn't it? How many 'ifs' do you have to think up in order to 'explain' the agenda of the church musicians claiming that extraneous noise is disruptive if it isn't? Of wanting to remove buskers from the city of Bath?

And let's repeat, it wasn't 'the buskers' that were the problem, it was two individual buskers who were said by others 'not to represent the majority of buskers'.

One's imagination could run riot working out the agendas of the Abbey DoM and the rector against those two buskers.

[amateur51]

In that case it's an agenda that could equally apply to the two (TWO) buskers who didn't agree, as the rest has done, to avoid playing during services.

No evidence whatsoever to assume that one side has an agenda, and an 'attitude problem', but the other hasn't. It's Ockam's Razor, isn't it? How many 'ifs' do you have to think up in order to 'explain' the agenda of the church musicians claiming that extraneous noise is disruptive if it isn't? Of wanting to remove buskers from the city of Bath?

And let's repeat, it wasn't 'the buskers' that were the problem, it was two individual buskers who were said by others 'not to represent the majority of buskers'.

One's imagination could run riot working out the agendas of the Abbey DoM and the rector against those two buskers.

Where's the feller Trollope? He could be using all this in one of his novels.

[french frank]

I hope ff understands what you mean by that, because I don't!

Yes, I did understand. But although there has been a vigorous difference of opinion, I don't see that any of the arguments have been personally unpleasant in this case. (But maybe that's only because the Church is involved!).

On second thoughts, I don't understand why I wouldn't dispatch it to the basement 'because the Church is involved'.

[mercia]

in terms of comparing the Bath 'situation' to other cathedral cities, isn't Bath somewhat unique? I don't know for sure but I shouldn't imagine buskers pitch up, for example, on the green outside Salisbury cathedral because there's no particular captive audience there - they're more likely to be found in the local shopping precinct. I can certainly understand why buskers choose that particular pitch in Bath - it must be the most lucrative part of the city with all the tourist attractions around, and looking at photos it seems to be an obvious enclosed performing space. I can think of other cities where churches are in amongst the pedestrianised streets - Chester, Norwich, Manchester spring to mind, but those churches probably don't have daily services with potential for disturbance. [do buskers busk on Sundays too ? ]

[jean]

Chester has daily services (of course!) but like so many cathedrals is surrounded by a green (probably not so good acoustically) and streets full of people are some way away. Manchester is out on a limb. I can't think of anywhere quite like Bath.

[jean]

On second thoughts, I don't understand why I wouldn't dispatch it to the basement 'because the Church is involved'.

That's what I didn't understand.

One might argue that hiding all these attacks on the Church somewhere where few will see them would be a kindness.

[Nick Armstrong]

despatched to the Basement

Indeed, I was thinking that it was very reminiscent of Basement arguments - hitting a brick wall early on and then (despite worthy attempts to set things straight) going round and round in circles...!

[french frank]

Chester has daily services (of course!) but like so many cathedrals is surrounded by a green (probably not so good acoustically) and streets full of people are some way away. Manchester is out on a limb. I can't think of anywhere quite like Bath.

The Pump Room and Roman Baths aren't far away. So it is in an unusually enclosed pedestrian area