Choral Evensong service halted by buskers mid-way at Bath Abbey

[MrGongGong]

I guess that applies to the Abbey choir as well?

they too are musicians earning their crust

Was what Bryn said

[jean]

This is what Bryn wrote:

And though neither MrGG nor I am exactly busker friendly, they too are musicians earning their crust, and some are very accomplished performers.

(My emphasis.)

The only musicians he mentions are himself, and you.

If he was replying to my reference to the Abbey musicians, he didn't make that clear.

[MrGongGong]

This is what Bryn wrote:


(My emphasis.)

The only musicians he mentions are himself, and you.

If he was replying to my reference to the Abbey musicians, he didn't make that clear.

erm I didn't read it that way at all

Too, meaning ALL musicians

Why would he exclude the singers in the choir ?

There is a creeping paranoia in some parts of the churches that they feel that they are being marginalised when all that is going on is people are refusing to go along with things in the deferential way that they did in the past. SOME of them don't like it.
Given that for archaic reasons the church is allowed to have it's chiefs in parts of Parliament then maybe they should use their special powers and change the laws of physics in a magic space around the Abbey so that there is no transmission of sound ? If you can rise from the dead a wee tinkering with acoustics should be a doddle.

[Sir Velo]

I think we're losing sight of the bigger picture by focusing purely on whether the busking was a nuisance to the See of Bath & Wells. My own view is that busking can provide an enjoyable bit of aural colour to one's surroundings but can also be a downright PITA. It's about time we legislated a decibel level for outdoor impromptu "entertainment" in public spaces. Below a certain threshold, fine: above, we pull the plug. I would probably outlaw external amplification unless it can be shown to be impossible to exceed a pre-defined decibel level. Oh, and enforce the busking licensing regulations.

[doversoul1]

There is a creeping paranoia in some parts of the churches that they feel that they are being marginalised when all that is going on is people are refusing to go along with things in the deferential way that they did in the past. SOME of them don't like it.

That may be so in a wider ‘context’, but in this particular case, doesn’t the matter just boils down to the buskers saying ‘why can’t we do what we want to do?’ If this had been a non-religious concert and the organiser had made the complaint, would your response have been the same?

Surely you don’t need a world conference to practise a little mutual respect? Or has such a notion long gone in this multi-sonic age?

[Sir Velo]

That may be so in a wider ‘context’, but in this particular case, doesn’t the matter just boils down to the buskers saying ‘why can’t we do what we want to do?’

See my post above. It doesn't actually. Busking isn't illegal. There are busking licences. It just, like other matters we have been discussing passim, needs enforcing.

[doversoul1]

See my post above. It doesn't actually. Busking isn't illegal. There are busking licences. It just, like other matters we have been discussing passim, needs enforcing.

How about:
‘As long as it’s not illegal, we can do what we like’

[jean]

Dovers is right; I think buskers aren't licenced here as they are in some places, so effectively they can play wherever and whenever they want.

It is not easy to understand why some of them insist on continuing to play during Abbey services.

[amateur51]

Dovers is right; I think buskers aren't licenced here as they are in some places, so effectively they can play wherever and whenever they want.

It is not easy to understand why some of them insist on continuing to play during Abbey services.

Au contraire, I think it's quite easy to understand why

[Bryn]

This is what Bryn wrote:

And though neither MrGG nor I am exactly busker friendly, they too are musicians earning their crust, and some are very accomplished performers.

(My emphasis.)

The only musicians he mentions are himself, and you.

If he was replying to my reference to the Abbey musicians, he didn't make that clear.

Hmm, your English comprehension appears to have failed you on this occasion. My message immediately followed one y MrGG and began with "And". I do occasionally drum and sing, and can just about produce a note or two on violin, flute. trumpet and tenor cor. I would not, however, describe myself as a musician, and certainly not one who performs for gain. It was clear enough to MrGG that the "also" referred back to your point re. the remunerated musicians participating in Abbey event. I find it hard to grasp how that link might have escaped you. Why would I refer to myself in the third person plural?

[Honoured Guest]

It is not easy to understand why some of them [buskers] insist on continuing to play during Abbey services.

Your personal difficulty in comprehending this has no bearing on the fact that they appear to be acting lawfully.

Negotiation might be more fruitful if one party and its online supporters didn't appear to regard the other as vermin.

[Sir Velo]

How about:
‘As long as it’s not illegal, we can do what we like’

How about: they have a right to earn a living provided they abide by regulations and local bylaws? We're not talking about vagrants or kids here, but legiitmate musicians. As I say, they're not to everyone's personal cuppa, but that does not mean they don't have rights too.

.

[french frank]

Au contraire, I think it's quite easy to understand why

This might be the crux of the matter for others (here?). Where, exactly, is the disagreement of principle in this discussion?

Unlicenced buskers using amplification:

Disturb children's school lessons by busking outside classrooms
Disturb library users in a reading room
Disturb residents in a convalescent home
Disturb people attending a church service.

In which situation does the disturbance not matter, and why?

Going back to vinteuil's point, which is covered by each of the above cases, those disturbed have no option but to do what they want to do where they are doing it; buskers can be where they choose to be. But there are also cases where those with amplification drive off other players using acoustic instruments (as in the French case I mentioned).

I'd also make the point that many (most?) buskers are not professional musicians playing to earn their living. They are playing to increase what income they have and because they enjoy it.

[Bryn]

... I'd also make the point that many (most?) buskers are not professional musicians playing to earn their living. They are playing to increase what income they have and because they enjoy it.

And the evidence supporting this assertion? How about the choristers? Is singing in the choir their only source of income?

[Flosshilde]

There is a creeping paranoia in some parts of the churches that they feel that they are being marginalised when all that is going on is people are refusing to go along with things in the deferential way that they did in the past. SOME of them don't like it.

As you know, Mr GG, I'm no friend of religion, but I don't think that in this case it's a question of paranoia, just an expectation that they be allowed to carry on their business (ie praying & praising god) in the space they occupy & which was built for that purpose without interference. I think it's a perfectly reasonable expectation. If I were taking tea (or the waters) in the Pump Room at Bath (whitch I think is by the Abbey & the noise (or music) of the buskers made conversation difficult I'd be annoyed. A particular group of buskers in Glasgow (wearing cod-ancient Scottish costumes - old plaid blankets & bits of fur, it looks like) play very late 20th century drums very noisily in the city centre. If I was working in an office nearby I'd be very annoyed that their noise was interfering with my work (by making it difficult to take telephone calls, converse with people or simply concentrate) & I would want them stopped.
It seems to me that because the activity being disrupted in Bath is religious you think it doesn't matter; if you were trying to conduct a lesson or workshop or whatever & it was disrupted would you be so happy?