van Beethoven's worst mistake

[Roehre]

.....Whether or not Treitschke or Beethoven would have wanted something more overtly hostile to the established order (which I doubt), it would have been virtually impossible in the revised version which was performed in 1814 when Austria was still joined with coalition allies at war with France, and in the repressive regime which came in under Metternich at the end of the Napoleonic wars any radical work may well have been censored and its authors in danger of imprisonment.

There were problems with the Austrian censorship. Metternich seems to have personally ordered a file on Beethoven, details of which appeared during the case Beethoven vs Beethoven in 1820 re the guardianship of nephew Karl and became in the public domain. The whole of the file -as far as still in existence- is scheduled for publication before 2020, the correspondence to and from Beethoven re Fidelio and changes in the libretto requested by the censors obviously can be found in the Brandenburg complete letters edition (letters sent] as well as in Albrecht's letters TO Beethoven volumes [for the correspondence which B received].

[aeolium]

There were problems with the Austrian censorship. Metternich seems to have personally ordered a file on Beethoven, details of which appeared during the case Beethoven vs Beethoven in 1820 re the guardianship of nephew Karl and became in the public domain. The whole of the file -as far as still in existence- is scheduled for publication before 2020, the correspondence to and from Beethoven re Fidelio and changes in the libretto requested by the censors obviously can be found in the Brandenburg complete letters edition (letters sent] as well as in Albrecht's letters TO Beethoven volumes [for the correspondence which B received].

That will be very interesting, Roehre, especially to discover what Metternich's concerns about Beethoven really were (possibly including the original dedication of the Eroica to Napoleon as well as the Fidelio libretto).

[ardcarp]

I wonder when the idea that it is 'revolutionary' took hold?

Not really sure, Flosshilde. I'm no historian, and having taken Maths, Physics, Chemistry and Zoology (!) at school, arriving as an arts undergraduate involved a steep learning curve. Fidelio was a first-year set work. The background of the French Revolution was certainly sold to us and I became very absorbed in it and in how European royalty and aristocracy (not least Austrian) was so scared of anything which rocked the social order. Probably over-simplified, but this little paragraph sums it up:

These kinds of “rescue” operas, very popular in post-revolutionary France, were enjoying a renewed vogue as Napoleon’s army swept across Europe in the first decade of the 19th century. Although the plot is primarily about Leonore’s courage and her love for Florestan, the political undercurrents—highlighted in Beethoven’s version, especially—added some historical depth to the story.

So the answer to your question could be at its inception.

[french frank]

I am wondering whether the sub-title "The Triumph of Married Love" could have been an embellishment by his publishers. Does any one know? It is somehow difficult to imagine van B. himself being as illogical and sentimental as that.

Pierre Gaveaux's earlier opera was entitled Léonore, ou L’amour conjugal, so I suppose Fidelio was following that tradition since Beethoven's librettist used the French libretto, written by Jean-Nicholas Bouilly (sentimental lot, the French). But Gaveaux also wrote an opera called L'Amour filial (ou La Jambe de bois), which will presumably set a few more posers for you.

Are you perhaps being something of a literalist in supposing that 'Married Love' is anything other than the love which a particular married woman (Leonore) has for her husband? At least, I suppose L'Amour filial deals with a child's love for his/her father/mother.

[Flosshilde]

Are you perhaps being something of a literalist in supposing that 'Married Love' is anything other than the love which a particular married woman (Leonore) has for her husband?

It does sound rather Stopesian

[EdgeleyRob]

First movement up to the beginning of the development section in (nearly) full score, continuity score for quite a lot of the rest of it, some lose sketches for 2nd and 3rd mvts. There exists a recording of a completion of the 1st mvt.

Roehre,thank you.

It's on you tube,and it's not especially memorable IMO.

[Roehre]

Roehre,thank you.

It's on you tube,and it's not especially memorable IMO.

I do think the composer did agree with you

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

First movement up to the beginning of the development section in (nearly) full score, continuity score for quite a lot of the rest of it, some lose sketches for 2nd and 3rd mvts. There exists a recording of a completion of the 1st mvt.

Are you referring to the 10th Symphony? It has been recorded twice. The long slow introduction retunes after the sonata-form central section. It's the intro and its recapitulation that contain, for me, the finest music.

[EdgeleyRob]

Are you referring to the 10th Symphony? It has been recorded twice. The long slow introduction retunes after the sonata-form central section. It's the intro and its recapitulation that contain, for me, the finest music.

The 6th Piano Concerto EA.

[Roehre]

Are you referring to the 10th Symphony? It has been recorded twice. The long slow introduction retunes after the sonata-form central section. It's the intro and its recapitulation that contain, for me, the finest music.

Recorded at least 3 times by now, btw
E-flat major introduction followed by a c-minor fast movement, as described by Karl Holz reporting what Beethoven had played for him and that movement's characteristics.
A device though unusual in general terms (intros are supposed to be in minor, fast mvts in major keys) is far from unusual in late Beethoven: the key- and mvt-order from op.131 e.g. (which was set out before the serious sketching for this quartet even started!).

[Sydney Grew]

Pierre Gaveaux's earlier opera was entitled Léonore, ou L’amour conjugal, so I suppose Fidelio was following that tradition since Beethoven's librettist used the French libretto, written by Jean-Nicholas Bouilly (sentimental lot, the French). . . .

Thanks for that enlightening nugget of erudition, which Mr. Hinton has also conveyed to me, elsewhere. So, van B. cannot after all be blamed for the strikingly inappropriate conjunction of amour and the conjugal - it was some "sentimental" (I would prefer "overexcited") Frenchman!

[kea]

I've sometimes imagined a more (overly?) cynical version of Fidelio, where Florestan begs to be put back in his cell because confinement has broken him causing him to fear the outside world more than the dungeons, and the Prisoners' Chorus is extolling the virtues of being kept safe and fed and housed away from the vagaries of the world, and Don Fernando's tyranny proves no different than Pizarro's, and Leonore is arrested for indecency due to wearing men's clothes and making romantic overtures towards a woman etc etc. You wouldn't even need to add that much music.

I guess this is the same impulse that leads me to imagine the Allegro appassionato from Op. 132 as the replacement finale of the Ninth Symphony, which it was originally intended to be. Tragedy is always more interesting than triumph >.>

[french frank]

the strikingly inappropriate conjunction of amour and the conjugal

That suggests the total impossibility of anything that might be called 'love' existing between two people who have chosen to be yoked together in marriage.

There are more things in heaven and earth, possibly,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Mr G.

[Bryn]

... I guess this is the same impulse that leads me to imagine the Allegro appassionato from Op. 132 as the replacement finale of the Ninth Symphony, which it was originally intended to be. Tragedy is always more interesting than triumph >.>

You could always try tagging http://www.scoreexchange.com/mp3play...95350235037166 onto a pause following the 'slow' movement of the 9th. I know it's only a less than wonderful midi realisation of Starr's orchestration, but ...

[It would appear the Mr. Starr did not get round to orchestrating the Allegro appassionato, so "Heiliger Dankgesang eines Genesenen an die Gottheit, in der lydischen Tonart" will have to do.]

[pastoralguy]

I guess this is the same impulse that leads me to imagine the Allegro appassionato from Op. 132 as the replacement finale of the Ninth Symphony, which it was originally intended to be. Tragedy is always more interesting than triumph >.>

Gosh, I didn't know that. Thanks. I must listen to it again in that context.