van Beethoven's worst mistake

[Tony Halstead]

Egmont?

Undoubtedly a fine, great work but IMV surpassed by The Consecration of the House, as Bryn has pointed out.

[kernelbogey]

Egmont?

Actually, it was Egmont that I meant.

[MrGongGong]

Egmont?

played it here as a teenager

[P. G. Tipps]

A typically earnest and thought-provoking plea from Mr Grew!

Though I was not around to read the Spectator in 1902, I remember discussing the issue of sex and marriage with some equally-idle colleagues in the late Sixties and I commented that the reason that people have sex and marry is due to lust, and the purpose of sex and marriage is the production and upbringing of children. I naively assumed that might be a view shared by most.

On the contrary, I was roundly turned on by the other members of the group and told that the purpose of sex and marriage had absolutely nothing to do with having children. It was all about 'love' (a much nicer-sounding word than lust) which, of course, at the time the great Beatles themselves claimed it was all we really needed, so who was I to argue?

As for Germanic opera, I've never been a huge fan, though, unlike Mr Grew, I can't see much wrong with the ancient institution of marriage ... at least a happy one!

[Nick Armstrong]

I recall that my main impression from Radio 3 'immersion' week of ALL of LvB's pieces was that there was a large number of pretty ordinary songs and other small works that were probably better left to return to richly-deserved obscurity...

[MrGongGong]

A typically earnest and thought-provoking plea from Mr Grew!

[Richard Tarleton]

the purpose of sex and marriage is the production and upbringing of children.

I think you were all wrong, Mr Tipps - lumping sex and marriage together is to confuse two different categories, one biological/evolutionary/genetic, the other cultural.

[Pabmusic]

I think you were all wrong, Mr Tipps - lumping sex and marriage together is to confuse two different categories, one biological/evolutionary/genetic, the other cultural.

Quite so. The (primary) purpose of sex is reproduction and thus passing on our genes to a new generation (and not all organisms use sex as a means, either). That was happening well enough for more than 3 billion years before anyone ever thought of marriage.

[Hornspieler]

I can think of several pieces by Beethoven which, if not mistakes exactly, seem to occupy a lesser place in his oeuvres. I can't bear The Consecration of the House, and the Choral Fantasy is just 'good in parts' IMVHO. But Fidelio? A great work. As an undergraduate coming up to university with no experience of opera whatsoever (if you discount G&S) I was completely hooked by Fidelio both for its music and its revolutionary politics.

Total agreement... and don't forget his "Battle" symphony (Wellington's Victory) and "King Stephen" overture.

HS

[mercia]

if its operas depicting married couples that we're not meant to approve of, there must be a few to choose from (aren't there?) - and shouldn't we be blaming Sonnleithner or Bouilly rather than Beethoven ?

[Pabmusic]

Total agreement... and don't forget his "Battle" symphony (Wellington's Victory) and "King Stephen" overture.

HS

Agreed about Wellington's Victory. It might jut as well have been written for a barrel-organ…


Oh! so it was…

But I don't agree about King Stephen, which is a 'nice' little work that doesn't sound much like LvB, but is still quite an unusual programme filler.

[aeolium]

I agree with Richard T about Fidelio. Having seen a number of different productions live and on DVD I just don't think it works on the stage. On the other hand the music definitely ought to be heard so for me this work is best served by radio broadcast or concert performance (or CD - for preference Furtwängler's studio recording).

And I think The Consecration of the House by some way LvB's most powerful and eloquent overture, as Bryn says a tribute to the composer he admired above all others, Handel.

[gradus]

Given the plausibility of many opera plots I don't think Beethoven particularly ill-served by Fidelio. Marriage and devotion to a partner doesn't strike me as a necessarily poor choice either and the music contains wonderful things even if other works of LvB appeal more. What is Syd getting at?

[Stanfordian]

Well Beethoven didn't make too many mistakes in my view. However the only work of the great master that I cannot tolerate is Wellington's Victory ('Battle Symphony') a work that leaves me cold.

[Barbirollians]

I suggest Dorati's recording of Wellington's Victory - great fun .

Leonore 3 is my favourite of his overtures .