Who Do You Think You Are?

[vinteuil]

... worry not, BBM - we are - ALL of us (except perhaps Mrs Pabmusic... ) in all statistical probability descended in one way or another from John of Gaunt. So you're related to lots of nice folk - and some not so nice. Best not to concentrate on this - better to focus on more brass-band transcriptions. What you do now is so much more important than what any of our ancestors seven hundred years ago may have been up to.

[BBMmk2]

... worry not, BBM - we are - ALL of us (except perhaps Mrs Pabmusic... ) in all statistical probability descended in one way or another from John of Gaunt. So you're related to lots of nice folk - and some not so nice. Best not to concentrate on this - better to focus on more brass-band transcriptions. What you do now is so much more important than what any of our ancestors seven hundred years ago may have been up to.

Thank you Vinteui!! Well I do concert band transcriptions as well!! :)

[vinteuil]

BBM is proud to be descended from John of Gaunt.

Pabmusic has generously informed us that most of us are descended from Richard III [ #1 above ]

In fact we all are much closer than we might think:

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/05/07/charlemagnes-dna-and-our-universal-royalty/

Basically, if we are of European stock and if Richard III has any descendants at all, then we're probably all his descendants.

A useful site if you wish to check is that listing the descendants of William the Conker -

http://www.william1.co.uk/w1.html#w1l1

[teamsaint]

BBM is proud to be descended from John of Gaunt.

Pabmusic has generously informed us that most of us are descended from Richard III [#61 above]

A useful site if you wish to check is that listing the descendants of William the Conker -


http://www.william1.co.uk/w1.html#w1l1

re either of those.....as Sam Cam famously said on being told she would have to move to downing street.............


" I ****ing hope not....."

Oh, and very wise words , Vinny, in your post #61.


Those of us of Celto/viking stock (is that a thing?) can presumably sleep easy on this score.

[Ockeghem's Razor]

Looking back from here to 1641 I can safely say with the author of the Internationale, 'ouvriers et paysans nous sommes.' No rather emaciated grandees in my line.

[mercia]

anyone know about mid-19th century marriage laws ? I've just noticed on my g-g-grandmother's marriage certificate that the groom is "of full age" but the bride is "a minor"

[french frank]

anyone know about mid-19th century marriage laws ? I've just noticed on my g-g-grandmother's marriage certificate that the groom is "of full age" but the bride is "a minor"

I would think that just meant that she had to have her parents' consent.

[mercia]

I would think that just meant that she had to have her parents' consent.

I see.

[John Wright]

Great story John!
It would be wonderful to have a portrait of your coachman ancestor - handsome devil, obviously - how long did they live, did anyone come looking for them?

Richard, our coachman and his young lady both lived to about 90, that's what I'm told the gravestones say, quite unusual for the 18th/19thC, and they are buried within the parish of the manor house so they must have remained 'respectable' within the community. Information from the 18thC is difficult to confirm but we'll try and do so.

Richard, not sure why you'd expect our coachman to have a portrait. After eloping seems they were allowed to be officially married (1764, both aged 30) and more than likely he and his wife were given a roof over their head but otherwise would have lived in poverty, maybe he was still a coachman but I don't expect his wife continued as a companion to Lady Maxwell, so no more nice dresses and rich food....

[Richard Tarleton]

Richard, not sure why you'd expect our coachman to have a portrait.

John I just wondered what he looked like - to catch the eye of the companion, cross the class divide etc....a theme more recently explored by, er, Downton Abbey

[John Wright]

Ha Ha. After some googling I became aware that there is some old publication 'Lives of the Lindsays' which includes letters to/from Earls of Crawford from 17th/18th C

Our actual connection with the Lindsays isn't confirmed. My ancestor who fought with the Jacobites (and arrested at the noble family home) was a Crawford (surname) born I expect around 1710 so he may be a cousin or nephew of the previous John Lindsay 19th Earl, who it turns out had married the daughter of the Earl of Annandale (Scottish borders) the Johnstone family, and yes our coachman was a Johnstone in Dumfriesshire...... no wonder our family all look the same

[John Wright]

And now we might know why our Crawford was on the Jacobite side! His wife was a Wemyss and probably a relative of the earl of Wemyss whose noble house was also in the county of Fife. I expect our man was in on a plot involving Lord Elcho (Wemyss) a staunch supporter of the Jacobites. Now I know what 'attainted' means.

[John Wright]

Looking through what we have gathered on the branches of the Wright side of the family who remained in what is now Cumbria, England, in the 19thC, there were some large families and also some less fortunate, quite tragic; this is on a gravestone

In memory of John WRIGHT of Longtown, baker, who died 10th May 1876 aged 92.
And Sara his wife who died 31st January 1863 aged 71.
And William son of John WRIGHT, who died 17th July 1811 aged 14 months.
And Margaret his daughter who died 8th May 1819 aged 3.
And Robert his son who died 10th August 1820 aged 2.
And James his son who died 3rd June 1833 aged 2.

[vinteuil]

... on the Jacobite side! .

.... Mme V is descended from (among other things... ) a Jacobite clan chief who died heroically at Culloden.

I note, however, that at that battle ("at a distance of some 600 yards") two of his sons were Captains in the British Army of the Duke of Cumberland....


So we were on the winning side, whatever happened...

(less cynically, just more evidence that 1715 and 1745 were not simplistically 'Scots' against 'English' - there were many Scots on the Hanoverian side; it really was a civil war. Just like 2014... )



.

[John Wright]

....
So we were on the winning side, whatever happened...

(less cynically, just more evidence that 1715 and 1745 were not simplistically 'Scots' against 'English' - there were many Scots on the Hanoverian side; it really was a civil war. Just like 2014... )

Well right. Our Crawford ancestor - his cousins were the Lindsays (Earls of Crawford, Hanoverians) but he had married into the noble Wemyss family (Jacobites). Was it his choice to go to Culloden as a Jacobite? Did he have a choice? Or did he side with the Wemyss hoping to benefit from a Jacobite victory?

Yes it was civil war. I can't help making comparisons with the YES and NO sides as we approach the referendum.

Living south of the border I am the only member of my family who cannot vote in the referendum. My brother and my three nephews, will all vote NO. He didn't say what all the wives were voting :)