Who Do You Think You Are?

[Richard Tarleton]

From a genetic point of view it is possible that you, I and everyone else carry no genes at all that came from - say - one of our four grandparents. It's quite likely that several of our eight great-grandparents are no longer represented. Go back earlier and the number of direct ancestors with whom we share genes becomes a smaller and smaller proportion of the whole. So in a very fundamental sense they were strangers to us.

That's interesting. I'm of the Morris Dancing persuasion when it come to my family tree - not least, as a historian I've found it fascinating being able to put my forbears in context, especially as a few of them partook in great events. But I've struggled with my Highland ancestors because of the particular difficulty of doing Scottish genealogical research - in particular pushing the story back beyond my (4 greats) grandfather who was born in 1783 (fought in Peninsula War, trained the Mexican army around the time of the Alamo...). I was interested in the Scottish DNA project which looks for matches with their database - they have a large database for our particular clan. But for this apparently they need (they say) DNA descended through the direct male line - and the family connection is through the direct male line is only as far as my father's father's mother. Does this sound plausible to you, Pabs? My project has come to a halt, as the only descendants through the unbroken male line are in Kenya and Australia.....

[Ockeghem's Razor]

Lord Palmerston said "Only three people have ever really understood the Schleswig-Holstein business—the Prince Consort, who is dead—a German professor, who has gone mad—and I, who have forgotten all about it."

Is our Ockeghem going to be a fourth?

Extremely unlikely, I fear

[Pabmusic]

...But for this apparently they need (they say) DNA descended through the direct male line - and the family connection is through the direct male line is only as far as my father's father's mother. Does this sound plausible to you, Pabs?...

There are two special and unconnected sources of DNA that we all carry. One is mitochondrial DNA, which is completely distinct DNA held within the mitochondria (almost certainly originating in bacteria-like organisms that developed a symbiotic relationship with our eukariotic cells about 1.7-2 billion years ago - when our ancestors were not much more than primative organisms living in water). The symbiotic relationship was so successful that almost every one of our 3 trillion-or-so cells contains mitochondria that store our energy - our 'batteries' if you like. (Each cell also contains several feet of our own DNA as well.)

Mitochondrial DNA is useful since it is passed through the female line. This is because the one exception to the 'rule' in my last paragraph - every cell contains mitochondria - is that of sperm cells (we're talking here about creatures that reproduce sexually). Sperm cells don't contain mitochondria. Your mitochondrial DNA contains an unbroken record through one female line starting with your mother, her mother, her mother and so on - and it's passed only through the egg, uncontaminated by all those generations of males. Very useful since we can read DNA. This provides 23 chromosomes in humans.

There's an equivalent in males - Y-chromosome DNA. Again, where the organism reproduces sexually (plenty don't - aphids for instance, who are all clones of a mother) the sperm provides the other 23 chromosomes, to make 46 in all. But these 23 have come all from the father. Again, this represents an unbroken line from just one male line, and they're not from a 'squatter' like mitochondria.

Investigating along either the direct male line or the direct female line can be very interesting.

[BBMmk2]

Well, it's quite amazing where you can find out from doing some family research, with the aid of various internet sites, like my wife had, and seeing what was you family many hundreds of years ago, I find interesting, as it all leads up to yourself

[Pabmusic]

...I find interesting, as it all leads up to yourself

Yes, that's true. If any of those unions had not occurred, or had even occurred sooner or later (by even a small fraction) you would not exist. Amazing!

[vinteuil]

Yes, that's true. If any of those unions had not occurred, or had even occurred sooner or later (by even a small fraction) you would not exist. Amazing!

"He marvelled at the fact that cats had two holes cut in their fur at precisely the spot where their eyes were."

Georg Christoph Lichtenberg [1742-1799]

[BBMmk2]

Anybody been watching the current series of WDYTYA? I thought With that actress(what's her name who starred in Eastenders?), and her grandfather was interned in Isle of Man. Quite interesting aspect, that we havn't heard much about?

[mercia]

oh dear, I knew I shouldn't have started delving ........ turns out [my surname] great-grandfather's widowed mother was not married to his father ......... saves me looking any further back though

[Serial_Apologist]

Anybody been watching the current series of WDYTYA? I thought With that actress(what's her name who starred in Eastenders?), and her grandfather was interned in Isle of Man. Quite interesting aspect, that we havn't heard much about?

Tamsin Outhwaite - someone I like very much, (though it's been a couple of decades since I bothered with Extenders), and quite a toughie, I thought. Who would have imagined her to have had Italian predecessors?

[Richard Tarleton]

I've found this programme less and less satisfactory with successive series, partly because the pace is so slow, and partly because it never seems to go back all that far (unlike BBM's and my researches ). And that's if I'm interested in the subject. And as for the timing with other programmes for symbiotic interest (Tamzin Outhwaite is in a new series of "New Tricks")....

But two cases in my own family demonstrate just how important a knowledge of your antecedents can be for people who are adopted or separated in childhood from their parents and family, and lack this knowledge. One of these cases is a cousin who was adopted and who decided to find out who her birth mother was. The other, involving two boys who were shipped from Kenya to England and thence to Australia as Barnardo Boys in the early 1920s, is much stranger than anything I've heard on WDYTYA. It had a happy, well two happy, endings, which it might well not have done. In researching it I've managed to rehabilitate a family member, debunk a family myth.....

[Richard Tarleton]

oh dear, I knew I shouldn't have started delving ........ turns out [my surname] great-grandfather's widowed mother was not married to his father ......... saves me looking any further back though

Yes you have to be prepared for skeletons....I discovered one of my grandmothers was born out of wedlock, something she would have found quite shocking had she known - my great grandparents were only married in time for the birth of their third child, something they managed to conceal from all concerned at the time. The story involved elopement with a lady artist to Italy from the USA in the 1890s, all very Henry James, altered passports, travel (USA-London) under a false name....Thanks to the internet (old passports, passenger lists, marriage records) you can unpick these stories.....

PS said g-grandfather had a very distinguished artistic career, this episode simply added to the interest

[John Wright]

My brother is the family genealogist and tracked down birth certificates etc. Our dad's dad was born way back in 1866 (!) and turns out great-granddad didn't marry great grandma till 6 months later, so some doubt.... but we have photos of great-granddad taken circa 1900 and the facial similarities are there so we have convinced ourselves that we are family. Also found out great-great-granddad was English and moved a few miles from Longtown to Eaglesfield (Dumfriesshire) north of the border with his blacksmith's business in the 1830s. We're all Scottish since then, eh well until I moved south of the border, so my children and grand-children are English :)

[mercia]

I've just been looking at the records of a distant ancestor, and at his baptism all the names seem to have been latinised - so Henry Joseph becomes Henricus Josephus, Charles Henry is Caroli Henrici etc. (the baptism was in Stafford not Rome )

[BBMmk2]

Names seem to be altered, down the years. And mine is no exception, especially 819AD and a bit more closer to home!

[french frank]

Family history methods can have wider uses too. I was once attracted at an auction sale to a small hand-written journal which contained the birthday and age of the (anonymous) writer and the baptismal names and date of baptism of his son. As he appeared to be a journalist (and poet?) born in 1795 I thought it would be interesting to find out more - just as a pastime.

The journal cost me £3 but gave me a huge amount of fun (which cost a bit more!) and I eventually donated it to the British Library, together with an edition of the published poem that was being written at the same time as the journal - and which the BL did not have in its collection. It was published under a pseudonym but it was possible to track it down and identify the author. Not anyone who became famous however. Chiz!