Controller, BBC Radio 3

[Ian]

What wide range of new music does it have to champion?

It could start with new orchestral music, chamber music, piano music, choral music etc. The composers you mention only represent a pretty small part of the of the incredibly diverse range of music being written today.

[Honoured Guest]

It could start with new orchestral music, chamber music, piano music, choral music etc. The composers you mention only represent a pretty small part of the of the incredibly diverse range of music being written today.

I agree with this interpretation! And would add electroacoustic sound and music compositions and improvisations, etc. I think CFM means genuinely new music, i.e. being created now, not music composed in the past by composers who are lucky enough to still be alive. Radio 3 should be an integral part of the new music culture.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It could start with new orchestral music, chamber music, piano music, choral music etc. The composers you mention only represent a pretty small part of the of the incredibly diverse range of music being written today.

Yes - some of whom don't write "orchestral, chamber, piano, choral Music etc", of course. I think that's frenchie's point; is there an "obligation" to "champion" new work from composers as "wide" (in style!) as Aaron Cassidy to Karl Jenkins (with Birtwistle and Adams somewhere in the middle)? if so, are they all to be "championed" equally? If so, when is it all to be broadcast, and what about Mozart, Dunstable, Wagner, Ives, Alwyn ... If not, who is to receive the greater share of "championship"? (And is "limited championship" an oxymoron?)

[french frank]

as "wide" (in style!) as Aaron Cassidy to Karl Jenkins (with Birtwistle and Adams somewhere in the middle)?

Yes, that was my point. If it includes commissioning a new piece from The Pet Shop Boys, what does it NOT include of what Ian rightly describes as 'the incredibly diverse range of music being written today'. If it includes everything on the grounds that it's 'new', I would disagree that Radio 3 has any sort of obligation (where does it say otherwise?) to champion it all. Does no other BBC music station have an obligation to champion 'new music'?

[Honoured Guest]

Yes, that was my point. If it includes commissioning a new piece from The Pet Shop Boys, what does it NOT include of what Ian rightly describes as 'the incredibly diverse range of music being written today'. If it includes everything on the grounds that it's 'new', I would disagree that Radio 3 has any sort of obligation (where does it say otherwise?) to champion it all. Does no other BBC music station have an obligation to champion 'new music'?

Yes, the point is that all BBC network music stations have that remit - for example, a week tonight, Radio 1 is broadcasting "a special live broadcast from Salford with classically inclined English synthpop act Clean Bandit performing with the BBC Philharmonic", and all BBC network music stations regularly broadcast specially recorded live sessions. No one ever said or meant that all new music has to be on Radio 3. But the percentage of new music on Radio 3 is miniscule in comparison to the percentage on Radio 1 and much of the Radio 3 new music spectrum is virtually non-existent outside Hear and Now.

[MrGongGong]

But the percentage of new music on Radio 3 is miniscule in comparison to the percentage on Radio 1 and much of the Radio 3 new music spectrum is virtually non-existent outside Hear and Now.

[Ian]

Yes, that was my point. If it includes commissioning a new piece from The Pet Shop Boys, what does it NOT include of what Ian rightly describes as 'the incredibly diverse range of music being written today'. If it includes everything on the grounds that it's 'new', I would disagree that Radio 3 has any sort of obligation (where does it say otherwise?) to champion it all. Does no other BBC music station have an obligation to champion 'new music'?

I suppose if either Neil Tennant or Chris Lowe wrote a string quintet one justification for broadcasting it on R3 (the only BBC station that would play a string quintet) would be if you felt a significant enough proportion of the audience would value it - I wouldn't expect R3 to play one of their pop songs. There is a much wider variety of new music being composed today that relates to the 'classical' tradition and that, crucially, the R3 audience would value than that found somewhere 'between' Birtwistle and Ades.

[Ian]

Yes - some of whom don't write "orchestral, chamber, piano, choral Music etc", of course. I think that's frenchie's point; is there an "obligation" to "champion" new work from composers as "wide" (in style!) as Aaron Cassidy to Karl Jenkins (with Birtwistle and Adams somewhere in the middle)? if so, are they all to be "championed" equally? If so, when is it all to be broadcast, and what about Mozart, Dunstable, Wagner, Ives, Alwyn ... If not, who is to receive the greater share of "championship"? (And is "limited championship" an oxymoron?)

It doesn’t matter how narrow or wide the remit is editorial choices will still have to be made, and that leads to subjective areas of valuing ‘quality‘. The best way round this problem is to try and share the decision making as widely as possible.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But the percentage of new music on Radio 3 is miniscule in comparison to the percentage on Radio 1 and much of the Radio 3 new music spectrum is virtually non-existent outside Hear and Now.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It doesn’t matter how narrow or wide the remit is editorial choices will still have to be made, and that leads to subjective areas of valuing ‘quality‘.

Yes - I think that's part of what frenchie was pointing out; the "wide" comes from The Times - how "wide" and whose criterion of "width"?

[Ian]

Yes - I think that's part of what frenchie was pointing out; the "wide" comes from The Times - how "wide" and whose criterion of "width"?

My point is that establishing where the boundaries are is not the same as establishing ‘quality‘. Editorial decisions will still have to be made however close or far apart the boundaries are. I suppose this doesn‘t apply if you take the view that at one end of the scale ‘low quality’ is defined by tonal music with singable tunes, whereas at the other end of the scale you have ‘cutting edge‘ music defining high quality. I think it is possible to have high and low quality music at either end of the scale - not that I see it as a scale at all - but that’s a different story.

[french frank]

But the percentage of new music on Radio 3 is miniscule in comparison to the percentage on Radio 1 and much of the Radio 3 new music spectrum is virtually non-existent outside Hear and Now.

Quite agree - and there should be more. But a classical music station has far more - excuse the word - 'old' music than Radio 1, whose major function is to showcase 'new music ('In New Music We Trust'?) of various kinds. But an analogous point would be for Radio 1 - how wide, and what, precisely?

Another regular BBC mantra is that the various stations should champion 'British Music', which has such different connotations as to make the expression useless.

[Honoured Guest]

With classical music (new and not new), a significant element of Radio 3's remit should be to reflect, and contribute to, classical music activity in the UK.

[french frank]

a significant element of Radio 3's remit should be to reflect, and contribute to, classical music activity in the UK.

Which of course it does. I'm less happy with any suggestion that UK performers should be better represented than performers from round the world. Or 'British Music' (which has an altogether different resonance in the classical sphere) regarded as more important than 'foreign music'. The New Generation Artists scheme would be weakened by limiting it to UK musicians.

[VodkaDilc]

Acc. to today's "Times", the chief exec of the Arts Council Alan Davey leads the field. .

Alongside Tom Service and Petroc Trelawney, according to today's Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/media/mediamonkeyblog/2014/sep/21/media-monkeys-diary-even-davis-radio-3

I'm afraid my impression of PT is still a Classic FM bloke with pretentions - and his right-wing ravings as a newspaper reviewer on Sky News (last night was a prime example) do not help. Service has also blotted his copybook, as far as I'm concerned, with some of his over-populist introductions to TV Proms this season - though perhaps that's seen as a recommendation.