Loud noises in theatres

[Dave2002]

A few days ago we went to see the Silver Tassie at the NT. There was a warning that loud noises and flashes would occur during the performance. I suspect that the explosions could have been above permitted safe levels for theatrical productions. I have no idea how realistic they were, as they were representative of a war situation, and I've not been in one of those.

It would also be interesting to know how the effects were produced. I doubt that such loud and "effective" (though very unpleasant) sounds could not be produced by audio equipment, so possibly some real explosives were used.

I have also been to other theatrical productions where noise levels have been, IMO, excessively loud. One was an amateur production of Rent a year ago - it was quite fun, but surely it can't be a good thing to expose both actors and audiences to sustained high sound levels for such a long period.

There is supposed to be control over these issues, but I am far from convinced that controls are exercised, or that reasonable levels are observed.

[MrGongGong]

These people will tell you all you need to know

http://www.lemaitreltd.com/c/PYROTECHNICS/nNNHTnLFW3g

[Ferretfancy]

A few days ago we went to see the Silver Tassie at the NT. There was a warning that loud noises and flashes would occur during the performance. I suspect that the explosions could have been above permitted safe levels for theatrical productions. I have no idea how realistic they were, as they were representative of a war situation, and I've not been in one of those.

It would also be interesting to know how the effects were produced. I doubt that such loud and "effective" (though very unpleasant) sounds could not be produced by audio equipment, so possibly some real explosives were used.

I have also been to other theatrical productions where noise levels have been, IMO, excessively loud. One was an amateur production of Rent a year ago - it was quite fun, but surely it can't be a good thing to expose both actors and audiences to sustained high sound levels for such a long period.

There is supposed to be control over these issues, but I am far from convinced that controls are exercised, or that reasonable levels are observed.

We were in the dress circle for Blithe Spirit recently, and the Noel Coward songs played between scenes were beautifully clear from 1930s recordings with perfect diction. The actors on stage on the other hand, were inaudible about 25% of the time, with the exception of Angela Lansbury. There was a brisk trade in hearing aids loaned by the theatre.
This is one reason why I avoid West End theatres where possible.

[Old Grumpy]

There was a brisk trade in hearing aids loaned by the theatre.

Yuk!!

[Dave2002]

These people will tell you all you need to know

http://www.lemaitreltd.com/c/PYROTECHNICS/nNNHTnLFW3g

Indeed. For an example I quote from http://www.lemaitreltd.com/p/Theatri...ns/BoE7YiW7tf8

The user must conduct safety trials prior to use to ascertain the suitability of noise levels for the public.

It's not only "the public" which needs to be protected, but also actors and other participants who are likely to be exposed to the effects more frequently, and in closer proximity.

My guess is it's no good relying on theatre critics to comment on this kind of thing, as presumably their hearing is shot to pieces if they attend a few events like this, plus shows with loud music. Otherwise they keep rating such events as 4 or 5 star productions - http://www.theguardian.com/stage/201...tional-theatre

From the drama point of view The Silver Tassie was quite good, and a reasonable production, but the noise levels were excessive and unpleasant. No - we were not seated at the front - indeed pretty much right at the back. I would expect that actors and production staff participating could experience hearing loss over time.

[Thropplenoggin]

I have the same problem with modern cinemas, where the decibel count must surely pose a risk to hearing. I've taken to wearing ear plugs to muffle the volume, though I go less now as a result of this problem.

[Dave2002]

I have the same problem with modern cinemas, where the decibel count must surely pose a risk to hearing. I've taken to wearing ear plugs to muffle the volume, though I go less now as a result of this problem.

I think fast acting ear defenders would be needed at The Silver Tassie, as the explosions last only a short while, though there are quite a lot of them. Much the loudest things I've heard for a while, though I once stood someway behind a fighter aircract (was it a Tornado?) "revving up" at Farnborough and even with fingers shoved firmly into ear lugs that was deafening and continuous for an extended period of seconds. Possibly ear defenders would have made that slightly more comfortable.

I tried ear plugs at the performance of Rent I mentioned - and they did make it more comfortable, though the sound quality did go down quite a lot. It would have been a lot better if the sound levels had been lower - and I think most people would still have enjoyed it - apart from those who can't hear the music because they've been to so many events with loud sound levels that their hearing is 40 dB down.

Things have got a lot worse in recent years due to "better" equipment, and producers' desires to go "bigger and (ahem) better." Before the current decade the previous loudest performance I went to was probably the showing of the film Tommy in the 1970s in Leicester Square.

[LHC]

According to this site http://www.soundadvice.info/index.htm

Even extremely short exposure to very loud noise is dangerous. Some percussive or explosive sounds last for a very short time, but are at such a level that hearing damage can occur. Exposure to such noises is uncommon in the normal environment, however pyrotechnics, fireworks and even loud sound systems can deliver peak noise levels in excess of the 140 dB exposure limit value set by the Noise Regulations.

The NT should have conducted a noise risk assessment, both in respect of its responsibilities to performers, employees and audience members. If the noise from the explosions exceeds 140 db they would be in breach of the Noise Regulations. Even if the explosions don't exceed that threshold, the number and frequency of the explosions will be considerations for any risk assessment.

[Dave2002]

According to this site http://www.soundadvice.info/index.htm



The NT should have conducted a noise risk assessment, both in respect of its responsibilities to performers, employees and audience members. If the noise from the explosions exceeds 140 db they would be in breach of the Noise Regulations. Even if the explosions don't exceed that threshold, the number and frequency of the explosions will be considerations for any risk assessment.

I would say that 140dB (usual meaningless measure - as need to specify a baseline - are we talking about above threshold of hearing level? - as with my discussion on tyre noise recently ....) is pretty much excessive. Even 130dB (on the same not very meaningful scale) would be bad. I remain unconvinced that the NT have not exceeded that in the performance mentioned.

It would be interesting to know what levels were measured in tests, and how the tests were carried out, and how frequently.

I do believe that continuous exposure to levels of 120dB (same measures ...) could also be damaging. I noticed that in Sweden most orchestras insist that some players are protected - for example players who might sit in front of the trombone section. I've not seen such care taken in the UK - though this does not mean that all UK orchestras are negligent in this respect.

Pop music performers often appear to break all the rules regarding sound levels and hearing related safety considerations. I suspect that some venues also turn a blind eye - which is easy to do if for example alcoholic drinks are on sale. Perceptions of noise level become fuzzy if one drinks a lot, and also if the background level is high there is often a tendency by some to turn up the sound level.

[Stillhomewardbound]

I struggle with noisy environments these days and have recently downloaded a decibel meter app to my mobile phone to monitor levels where I go.

[MrGongGong]

Many musicians of all types wear hearing protection
(a bassoonist I was working with yesterday had just got herself a new set of custom made ear protection that reduces volume without filtering)

If you are onstage playing amplified music it's rarely extremely loud, foldback is adjustable and many bands use in ear monitoring so that the sound level in front of the PA is considerably greater than onstage. Many musicians on stage have a very different monitor mix to the front of house sound anyway (i've done gigs in bands where all I have chosen to have in my monitor is the bass drum and bass guitar ! all that was needed to play in time).

Dave is spot on about db, it's meaningless without reference levels, though 120db (about what ?) is often quoted as the "threshold of pain".

Many orchestral players (especially ones who have sat in front of trumpets for many years) have serious problems with hearing loss.

[Serial_Apologist]

Many musicians of all types wear hearing protection
(a bassoonist I was working with yesterday had just got herself a new set of custom made ear protection that reduces volume without filtering)

If you are onstage playing amplified music it's rarely extremely loud, foldback is adjustable and many bands use in ear monitoring so that the sound level in front of the PA is considerably greater than onstage. Many musicians on stage have a very different monitor mix to the front of house sound anyway (i've done gigs in bands where all I have chosen to have in my monitor is the bass drum and bass guitar ! all that was needed to play in time).

Dave is spot on about db, it's meaningless without reference levels, though 120db (about what ?) is often quoted as the "threshold of pain".

Many orchestral players (especially ones who have sat in front of trumpets for many years) have serious problems with hearing loss.

The trumpet player Henry Lowther once told me a hilarious story from the 1960s about when he and the saxophonist Lyn Dobson were touring in Manfred Mann. Apparently Lyn turned up at a gig in Skegness (iirc) to discover he had forgotten to bring any reeds. "Don't worry", Henry told him, "just stick a bit of rolled up paper in the mouthpiece, nobody'll notice". And it was true! In those days "monitors" consisted in the speakers behind the band, any sounds from the unmiked horn sections being rendered inaudible by the volume of the amplified front-line-cum-vocalist. Lyn Dobson mimed the whole performance!