The RW Legacy

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm sorry but that really isn't enough.
I'm sure you have met many people who would be passionate enthusiasts for the music that R3 plays BUT feel that, for whatever reason, it somehow isn't for "people like them" ?
Not everyone reads.
Some people need to be taken to a place and "given permission" to be there.
If the gatekeepers keep people out then we need to get rid of them.

What's a "great work" anyway ? ..... surely an opinion rather than a fact
I want people to introduce me to music that I would never listen to
to music I might have dismissed because I had a bad experience with it in the past
and to music that I know nothing about.

Reading from a list of things to be played assumes that the audience knows what they like and knows what they want to listen to. For that we have iTunes, Spotify and CDs

That just makes the relatively simple task of discovery rather complicated. For those who only want to hear what they think they will like, it wouldn't work, but they would simply be deying themselves of the accessibility. Ramming music down people's throats never works. Neither does talking down to them I know you were not suggesting this, but I do think Radio 3 should give people the opportunity to experiment with listening - somthing the largely unpublished schedules deny.

[MrGongGong]

I'm not suggesting that NOT publishing schedules is necessarily a good idea
but as well as that I like people I trust (maybe that's the issue ?) to introduce me to things I no nothing about.
When I meet musicians who I really admire and they tell me that they are passionate about a particular piece or performer I usually go and find out.

[teamsaint]

Are you suggesting that "great works" of the present are models of "great works" of the past ?
Hummmmmmmm

Not at all.
I was thinking about ways to present , share and educate in music on the radio.
Wasn't thinking about musical works at all.

[teamsaint]

I'm not suggesting that NOT publishing schedules is necessarily a good idea
but as well as that I like people I trust (maybe that's the issue ?) to introduce me to things I no nothing about.
When I meet musicians who I really admire and they tell me that they are passionate about a particular piece or performer I usually go and find out.

Can happen that those we don't trust musically, (used a description i dont like there) bring us to new stuff too.
I was recently introduced to the Mahavishnu Orchestra by somebody I would have thought, (had i known what their music is like) would be very unlikely to enjoy their music.
But trust is useful, obviously.

I try to make it part of my daily routine to get a musical recommendation from people I meet. I offer them too, if wanted.

[french frank]

I'm sure you have met many people who would be passionate enthusiasts for the music that R3 plays BUT feel that, for whatever reason, it somehow isn't for "people like them" ?

I have heard other people speak about it - as you are doing. It becomes a cliché. I don't know anyone who I suspect would be passionate about the music I like, and have never met anyone who claimed that they felt it 'wasn't for them'. But if these things are repeated often enough people may begin to think it's something special that 'isn't for them'.

I probably only found Radio 3 by twiddling the button and stopping when I heard things I liked. Then I listened until I was told what it was. The problem is that the most 'accessible' places for most people have entirely removed all music that isn't pop (new, old skool, old hat, but all middle of the road popular music). And I don't think it works to start bringing popular music to the 'inaccessible places' (like the Proms or R3) rather than promoting non-popular genres on, say, BBC One or Radio 1 as part of their standard output.

[Quarky]

I think many were taken aback by RW's decision to jump ship. He has been the longest serving Controller of R3, possibly with the highest profile and possibly having had one of the bumpiest rides.

I am genuinely interested in his legacy i.e. what things both good and less good do Forum contributors see RW as having brought to / lost from R3.

Mr. GongGong is making maximum sense. But I don't think anyone is suggesting RW implemented Mr. GongGong's strategy.

Having taken a serious interest in Radio 3 only for the past 7 or so years, I can't really comment on RW's 15 year reign. Certainly when I began to take more than a passing interest in R3, the whole discussion was about dumbing down, and I do believe that the Dumbers have done their worst, and we are all well and truly down.

But was this RWs' fault, or was he just reacting to the effects of the Internet, and a huge number of commercial radio stations, 95% of which broadcast worthless pap, with a tinge of classical, jazz, rock or whatever? No doubt he was obliged to make efforts to keep up listener ratings.

Should it be left to State run stations, such as BBC, to make a stand for culture, however weak, when the commercial stations such as Classic FM and Jazz FM can play any amount of rubbish in the name of profit? I would like to see the Government force these other "culture" stations to be more serious about their alleged intentions of broadcasting good music, instead of leaving it all to BBC.

However I can't forgive RW for paring back to the bone, the Jazz broadcasts on Saturday. All Jazz fans recognise that Saturday p.m. is the optimum time for listening.

[french frank]

However I can't forgive RW for paring back to the bone, the Jazz broadcasts on Saturday. All Jazz fans recognise that Saturday p.m. is the optimum time for listening.

This is one of the baffling features: he was the one who created 'the Jazz Zone' on Saturdays, who launched Jazz Line-Up and Jazz Legends (and later Jazz Library), and brought the two hours that were the late night 'Jazz Notes' programmes down into the daytime schedule with new programmes.

Then he dropped Jazz File and started moving programmes back into the late night slots again. I have a press release for 14 July 2000 to hand:

"Roger Wright says, "This year we took some bold decisions to change our evening and weekend schedules and they've paid off: [...] our new jazz strands have introduced stars to the network and been acclaimed by the jazz community.
[...]
"I'm delighted that there's been an overwhelmingly positive listener response to our schedule. Our listening figures have risen and the average number of hours each listener spends with the network per week is at a high of six and a half hours..."

NB The next set of listening figures showed a quite dramatic drop, if I remember.
[Add: Yes, the March 2000 figure was 2.143m but the June one (published in August, a couple of weeks after his pronouncement) dropped to 1.951m.]

[MrGongGong]

I probably only found Radio 3 by twiddling the button and stopping when I heard things I liked.

I'm probably the same
BUT for many people the word "MUSIC" isn't just a description of a sonic event.
It's a hard one for musicians to get their heads around IMV
The sonic component of the music (which is usually what draws me in to things I know nothing about) is only a small part for many listeners. This is, in my experience, equally true of opera and hip-hop audiences and is nothing new really.

Can happen that those we don't trust musically, (used a description i dont like there) bring us to new stuff too.

Absolutely
When our old academic fiend used to rant about hideous,ugly, noise I would go straight to it

[doversoul1]

I'm sorry but that really isn't enough.
I'm sure you have met many people who would be passionate enthusiasts for the music that R3 plays BUT feel that, for whatever reason, it somehow isn't for "people like them" ?
Not everyone reads.
Some people need to be taken to a place and "given permission" to be there.
If the gatekeepers keep people out then we need to get rid of them.

What's a "great work" anyway ? ..... surely an opinion rather than a fact
I want people to introduce me to music that I would never listen to
to music I might have dismissed because I had a bad experience with it in the past
and to music that I know nothing about.

Reading from a list of things to be played assumes that the audience knows what they like and knows what they want to listen to. For that we have iTunes, Spotify and CDs

I suppose you could say that one of the most prominent RW legacies is that Radio 3 has now turned into a primary school classroom.

I’m sorry Mr GG, I am exaggerating a bit but there are education and education. Radio3 should be offering programmes that are suitable for individuals who are willing to educate themselves by making necessary effort.

[french frank]

Just seen this in the report of VLV awards for 2013:

BBC Proms 2013 was given the mutiplatform award for Radio 3's 'outstanding use' of three platforms during the season, including broadcasting 88 concerts live on the station, and 26 on television. Outgoing controller Roger Wright picked up the award and said: 'I'm told I'm the longest-serving controller of any BBC service in the BBC's history... I think it is time to move on.'

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Radio3 should be offering programmes that are suitable for individuals who are willing to educate themselves by making necessary effort.

YES!

[kernelbogey]

Perhaps I'm being too kind to Kenyon in saying that RW's legacy seems to be the assumption that in order to draw new listeners into enthusiasm for serious music, they have to be talked down to, and fed a diet of easily-conusmed favourites, repeated as often as possible.

[french frank]

Something that could be developed is the characteristic of 'trying' something for a few years (often justified at the outset) and then dropping it completely. RW introduced:

The Early Music Show x 2 (replacing Spirit of the Age/Music Restored, one edition subsequently dropped).
Sunday Live (replacing NK's Brian Kay's Sunday Morning), Iain Burnside, Cowan Collection - replaced by Sunday Morning
Listeners' Choice, changed to Radio 3 Requests, dropped (but replaced with requests littering the schedule).
Making Tracks (replacing The Music Machine) - dropped
World Routes - new world music programme - dropped.
'World Music Day' (annual, New Year's Day?) - dropped
Radio 3 World Music Awards - dropped (but replaced by an NGA 'mentoring' scheme?)
Stage and Screen - dropped (but eventually replaced by Sound of Cinema, to coincide with the 'pan-BBC' season)
Brian Kay's Light Music - dropped.
Late Junction 4 nights weekly, lengthened, moved later, shortened, reduced to 3 weekly.
Choral Evensong live OB moved from Wed to Sun, then moved back to Wed.
Composer of the Week, moved back to 9am (NK moved it to noon) and the late night repeat dropped; then moved back to noon and the late night repeat restored; then the repeat moved to early evening at various times.
CD Masters, Morning Performance, Classical Collection, Work in Progress replaced by Essential Classics
Morning on 3 (for On Air) to Breakfast

All RW innovations eventually 'refreshed'.

Live evening concerts were dropped completely, then reintroduced for every evening (so that it could be sold as something 'new')

*Discovering Music, Jazz File, Mixing It - inherited, then dropped (*DM expanded and developed under RW). Choirworks, replaced after an interval by The Choir

Only CotW, Choral Evensong, JRR and In Tune have survived (of the music output) - the first three the longest-running programmes dating back to the Third Prog, In Tune (with Sean Rafferty) introduced by NK. NK's Night Waves survives, though moved to an earlier time.

The much-maligned Kenyon had some very good long-running projects like Fairest Isle and Sounding the Century (replaced by the Wright idea of 'clear the schedules for Composer X round the clock for 1 -3 weeks')

As Honoured Guest will helpfully explain, if you're the longest-serving controller (of any service) in the BBC's history you're bound to make the odd programme change here and there.

[kernelbogey]

Was it the Kenyon era in which on 1 January they ran a day of music from the year dot (well, eleventh century, as I recall) to modern times and the news bulletins were contemporaneous - 'large force sets off for the Holy Land', 'new boat design for the Venice canals, named a "Gondola"' etc? It was the most enjoyable of the 'thons' in my memory. I asked if it could be repeated and got a starchy reply saying that there was 'no time' in the schedules for a repeat...!

[french frank]

Was it the Kenyon era in which on 1 January they ran a day of music from the year dot (well, eleventh century, as I recall) to modern times and the news bulletins were contemporaneous

Will have to rely on other memories than mine - and I only have the schedules back to 1997 on the computer. I don't think that was a legacy of RW (though - mirabile dictu - I did enjoy bits of the World Music Day efforts).