A tour of British Accents

[jean]

...A similar thing happened with 'lieutenant', which entered English about 1400 as a Norman-French dialect pronunciation possibly like 'levtenant' or 'lieftenant'. It quickly gained a second pronunciation - 'lootenant' in East Anglia especially...

That's very interesting! I always assumed that the American pronunciation was more recent, approximating to modern French - the way we now tend to pronounce place names beginning with Beau- (except for Beaulieu.)

But it's clearly much more complicated.

[Pabmusic]

That's very interesting! I always assumed that the American pronunciation was more recent, approximating to modern French - the way we now tend to pronounce place names beginning with Beau- (except for Beaulieu.)

But it's clearly much more complicated.

Yes, it seems to be so that the English fairly quickly started pronouncing it a different way. Here's Michael Quinion on it:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-lie1.htm

He does not mention the Norman'French dialect version, but I've certainly read it elsewhere.

[jean]

He doesn't mention the East Anglian pronunciation you refer to above either, does he?

[Pabmusic]

He doesn't mention the East Anglian pronunciation you refer to above either, does he?

No. I'll try to find other sources (most of my books are here, but it may take a while). I don't believe I'm wrong, though I'll always admit that things are more complex that I can convey in one post.

[vinteuil]

A similar thing happened with 'lieutenant', which entered English about 1400 as a Norman-French dialect pronunciation possibly like 'levtenant' or 'lieftenant'. It quickly gained a second pronunciation - 'lootenant' in East Anglia especially (medieval Essex?). When it emigrated to America, New Englanders in general said 'loo-', Southerners 'lef-'. In fact the US military retained 'lef-' until the 1890s! John Wayne was just wrong in all those films (they used the British-style salute, too).

.

... but is there an explanation as to why, while the British Army says "lef-tenant", the traditional usage in the Royal Navy was "loo-tenant" (as in Lieutenant-Commander)?

[vinteuil]

That's very interesting! I always assumed that the American pronunciation was more recent, approximating to modern French - the way we now tend to pronounce place names beginning with Beau- (except for Beaulieu.)

But it's clearly much more complicated.

... surely Beaulieu is pronounced Bewley - /ˈbjuːli/ - , in the same way that Beauchamp is pronounced Beecham - /ˈbiːtʃəm/ - ?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What about Beaumaris?

[jean]

... surely Beaulieu is pronounced Bewley - /ˈbjuːli/ - , in the same way that Beauchamp is pronounced Beecham - /ˈbiːtʃəm/ - ?

Yes, that's what I meant.

But most people I hear prounounce Beaumaris as Bowmaris, although the Welsh spelling is Biw- making it clear that it once followed the old convention.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

But most people I hear prounounce Beaumaris as Bowmaris, although the Welsh spelling is Biw- making it clear that it once followed the old convention.

My mother, who taught evacuee children from Manchester, in North Wales in WWII, always used the latter pronunciation, but my Welsh university tutor, somewhat surprisingly used the former.

[Serial_Apologist]

Bear in mind, folks, this is a 85 second overview of our regional accents. Also, the speaker is a dialect coach and not to be confused with a phonetician.

Re. the Scouse/NI assertion. Not as daft as you might think. My tertiary education was in that city and I came to realise there was a triangle of migration based on Belfast/Liverpool/Glasgow. Imagine what I call the 'Belfast hnar hnar', add in the Scottish emphasis, throw in a bad case of adenoids and you'll hear what he's hinting at.

The assertion I found most interesting was the origins of Cockney being in the East Anglian accents. Nonsense I would have said, until he raised that point, but now I can hear it.

The somewhat more nasal-sounding south London accent is also said to have originated from Kent and Surrey. Speaking of East Anglian accents, the old, uncockneyfied Essex accent could still be found in villages within 20 miles of London when my parents settled there in the late 1950s, and from hearing it, many claim a strong influence of it on Australian and New Zealand speech, which has always seemed odd to me, given that the first British settlers "down under" are not said to have originated from East Anglia.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The somewhat more nasal-sounding south London accent is also said to have originated from Kent and Surrey. Speaking of East Anglian accents, the old, uncockneyfied Essex accent could still be found in villages within 20 miles of London when my parents settled there in the late 1950s, and from hearing it, many claim a strong influence of it on Australian and New Zealand speech, which has always seemed odd to me, given that the first British settlers "down under" are not said to have originated from East Anglia.

South Africans, Australians and New Zealanders speak with a modified cockney accent. But in the Falkland Islands, they have a more "universal" English accent.

[ahinton]

South Africans, Australians and New Zealanders speak with a modified cockney accent. But in the Falkland Islands, they have a more "universal" English accent.

I didn't know that; I'd have thought that they'd have been more likely to have a mild Portuguese accent...

[mangerton]

... surely Beaulieu is pronounced Bewley - /ˈbjuːli/ - , in the same way that Beauchamp is pronounced Beecham - /ˈbiːtʃəm/ - ?

Yes. The Scottish place name "Beauly" is also pronounced Bewley, and apparently has the same derivation.

[umslopogaas]

I was always told when I worked in Oz that the Australian accent results from - the following in Oz accent - "talking down yer nose, mate, because if you open yer mouth the b****y flies fly in."