To buy or not to buy ...

[Barbirollians]

[QUOTE=doversoul;375501]Told you Andrew would pick this up
Your Tuneful Voice - Handel Oratorio Arias
Iestyn Davies (countertenor), The King’s Consort, Robert King (conductor)

Some critical reviews of the playing. Irrelevant to me as I won't buy any recordings conducted by convicted child sex offenders .

[Ed: Detached from the Early Music thread - ff]

[Sir Velo]

Some critical reviews of the playing. Irrelevant to me as I won't buy any recordings conducted by convicted child sex offenders .

I think RK has paid his debt to society don't you? Time to stop this private persecution methinks.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think RK has paid his debt to society don't you? Time to stop this private persecution methinks.

Naughty, Sir V! (love the new icon, by the way ) Barbie's comment makes it clear that he doesn't think that the debt has been adequately paid. And, if an individual not buying the CDs of an artist for whom he has a low opinion, then as "private persecutions" go, it's pretty "private" and hardly a "persecution".

[doversoul1]

I wouldn’t go as far as to suggest a boycott of Robert King’s CDs but I will not buy them myself because I cannot dissociate him from what he did, which makes me feel very uncomfortable to be listening to his performances.

I would not put the value of music above life and future of a child, and if it had been my own child or grandchild, I would not regard what happened as a repayable debt. I would of course do my best to help the child rebuild his life but that is a different matter. Robert King is an excellent musician but purely in musical terms, he is by no mean indispensible whereas once a child’s life is damaged it is irreplaceable.

I don’t think this is a question of persecution of social justice but it is about individual’s conscience. I would like to hope that producers and presenters of music programmes at the BBC and elsewhere would use their own discretion.

If the discussion is to continue, perhaps a new thread can be opened on more appropriate Board (and can we please talk about Palestrina here? )

[ed] When I originally posted the link of the CD, I was indifferent about the matter but since then I had a chance to talk about the subject with a friend on this board, which made me think more carefully about it. I could delete the link but then, it would make nonsense of the discussion.

[Sir Velo]

Robert King has been tried, convicted and punished in accordance with English law. By condemning his sentence, which is in line with judicial guidelines, you are running the risk of bringing this website into disrepute. By effectively turning any offender into a pariah with no opportunities to reintegrate or make reparation you risk them effectively becoming outlawed to the extent that they pose an even greater danger to society. Be very careful what you wish for.

[Bryn]

All in all I find myself concurring with Anne Widdecombe on this one.

[doversoul1]

Robert King has been tried, convicted and punished in accordance with English law. By condemning his sentence, which is in line with judicial guidelines, you are running the risk of bringing this website into disrepute. By effectively turning any offender into a pariah with no opportunities to reintegrate or make reparation you risk them effectively becoming outlawed to the extent that they pose an even greater danger to society. Be very careful what you wish for.

This is what I said:
I don’t think this is a question of persecution or social justice but it is about individual’s conscience.

Whilst I make no apology for not feeling generous toward someone who willfully betrayed a child’s trust and abused him, I have no intention of persuading others who view the matter differently.

Please Host, can this part of the thread be moved to somewhere more appropriate?

[Ed: Relocated to Platform 3 - ff]

[Petrushka]

All in all I find myself concurring with Anne Widdecombe on this one.

As do I.

[Barbirollians]

I do not have any issue with rehabilitation and I am more than aware of the possibility of miscarriages of justice . 5 boys , however gave evidence against him and he is reported as being unrepentant and continuing to deny his offending. I have seen no sign or suggestion that his case should be referred to the CCRC.

I find the idea of lining his pockets with any royalties deeply repugnant in those circumstances.

[MrGongGong]

I look forward to the BBC4 series about Ian Stuart Donaldson and his contribution to popular music in the UK then

[teamsaint]

there are a lot of difficult areas to think about. It is, in some ways, perfectly reasonable to take the " He has paid his debt to society view" However, Barbi's opinions are, IMO equally valid, if there are solid grounds for holding them.
One good reason to support barbi's view is that we do not all get equal treatment, either under the law, or in society. These situations will never be completely fair or logical, but King has regained his status and income with astonishing ease, whilst other musicians with similar kinds of convictions have remained pariahs.(Notably from the classical world, Jonathan Rees Williams , who is unable, as far as i am aware, even to give organ recitals in modest surroundings.)
I personally, wouldn't buy King's recordings or attend a concert.

[french frank]

Everyone is entitled to act according to their own feelings and beliefs: do not buy CDs, do not attend concerts, if that is how you feel. Avoid in every possible way.

But there are two points of view: should those who hold one view impose their view on those who don't? Which is 'less just': to involve some in possible inconvenience? Or to deprive others of what they wish to buy/do/listen to?

It seems right that no one should be criticised for stating their view (and their reasoning). But in the end, no one wants to promote concerts or produce records that are boycotted by the majority in a demonstration of their distaste.

[Pabmusic]

When an earlier Robert King release came out, there were similar comments posted:

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?7498-Stanford-amp-Parry-(1st-recs-on-period-instruments-!-)-The-King’s-Consort’s-100th-CD&highlight=robert+king

Now we have a another thread. Will this continue with each release? If so, it begins to sound less like indignation and more like vindictiveness, which is by no means an admirable emotion.

[teamsaint]

If the attention focussed on another King CD serves to highlight the apparent injustices and great inconsistencies in treatment by the law and the media of different people who have committed similar offences, then it serves a worthwhile purpose.

I wonder how difficult for non musicians to gain employment, or any place in society, after similar convictions. What is it like for a someone with a modest employment record who lives on a sink estate.Horrendous prospects I should think, and a life lived in fear. How does King's rehabilitation look to them?

Here's the Wiki entry:
"King’s career suffered a setback in 2007 when he was convicted and jailed for indecent assault against minors[6] but concurrent with his successful return to the podium in 2009.."

Now plenty of people looking at that, and seeing his Oxbridge background, might come to the conclusion that he has been more than somewhat protected by the system, and that peeople of his background, (Oxbridge,Classical music, successful) get off lightly compared to others like pop musicians, for example.

King could have likely made a living in music after his release in rather less high profile activities. He has put himself in the firing line.

[MrGongGong]

Here's the Wiki entry:
"King’s career suffered a setback in 2007 when he was convicted and jailed for indecent assault against minors[6] but concurrent with his successful return to the podium in 2009.."
Now plenty of people looking at that, and seeing his Oxbridge background, might come to the conclusion that he has been more than somewhat protected by the system, and that peeople of his background, (Oxbridge,Classical music, successful) get off lightly compared to others like pop musicians, for example.

Sadly, I think this is probably fairly accurate
I guess his involvement in "proper" music makes it no more than a "setback"