Not Getting Married Today ...

[Stillhomewardbound]

Something remarkable happened just the other night and yet, no one seemed to notice. I'm talking about the legislation that has become active in England & Wales which now concedes that the joining of a man with a man, or a woman with a woman in common union is a marriage just like any other marriage. The same looks set to apply in Scotland and next year in Ireland this move will go to a referendum.

I, myself, currently have no same-sex partner in my life to whom I might propose marriage, but what matters is that I now have the right. As of today I now have that entitlement which I did not have before. What's more, I won't need to describe my union as merely a 'civil partnership' and no more will I suffer the indignity of being advised that my civil service could make no reference to my union as being a 'marriage', that I could not call my partner 'my husband', nor the prohibition of the music I might have had played at my service.

'I'm getting married in the morning', 'Daisy, daisy, give me your answer do' and/or 'Marry Me' were among the songs that the law of England & Wales stipulated I could not play since the introduction of the Civil Partnership Act.

I suppose some might suggest that I was being greedy in imagining that we could go from straights-only marriage to straight/same-sex marriage in one fell swoop.

Well, possibly not greedy, but certainly overly-optimistic.

Whatever, we are are there now and a distinction that had no right being in place has been vanished; and guess what? The clock still ticks. The son came up this morning as it always did and my mate Alex drove the 89 out of Plumstead Garriage as usual while my neighbour's kids tripped out to school as they do during term time.

But much more remarkable is that up and down our land there are straight married couples for whom their contract has not been in the least bit altered or debased. Quite simply, nothing has changed with the introduction of this revision of the marriage act. Such couples are no less married than they were and the family model has by no means disintegrated.

Archbishops of Canterbury & Westminster take note and consider that Canute is not your best role-model.

What HAS changed, though, quite massively, is that millions of LGBT folk are now one degree less discriminated against in their daily lives. They are one step closer to true equality with the common society of which they have always been a part and surely that is something that can only be applauded.

I won't be getting married in the morning to the lovely man that sometimes shares my bed anytime soon, but until midnight last night such a notion wasn't even a possibility.

I can only wonder that we had to push so hard against what should have been an open door.

[Mary Chambers]

I think it's an excellent and long overdue social advance. From the time I first found out that homosexuality existed - which was pretty late, as I was brought up in the 1940s and 50s in circles where sex of any kind was barely mentioned - I have instinctively felt that any sort of discrimination is wrong. All the same, I didn't really think I'd ever see the day when same-sex marriage would become legally valid. It's wonderful.

I've been astonished in my online wanderings elsewhere to discover how much homophobia and opposition to this development still exists. There seems to be an almost superstitious fear. Totally puzzling to me.

[BBMmk2]

Possibly ignorance Mary.

[kea]

Possibly ignorance Mary.

Nah, more the belief that one's own perceptions equal objective reality—or at least are more accurate and true than those of any other person. I don't know what the short word for that is, though it's related to what Wikipedia calls the "introspection illusion" and "false-consensus effect".

edit: this perhaps?

[Roehre]

I think it's an excellent and long overdue social advance. ....

It almost to the day 10 years that Mrs R and I took a gay couple -long term friends of ours- abroad to a country where same sex marriages were possible and through some contacts we were able to get them officially married. It took a lot of hassle -e.g. the British consulate was very suspicious why both men wanted to have their birth certificates translated and why they needed a translated confirmation that neither of them had been married before- but eventually we succeeded.
A nice touch was, that they were married by another friend of ours who was one of the very first persons to be officially married in a same-sex ceremony. Lovely it was. Returned to Britain we then managed to have their marriage blessed (then unfortunately inofficially, as it could not be officially registered) by our local vicar.
It all meant the couple had eventually succeeded in getting the icing on their cake - they are very happy married to this very day.

Mrs R and I found it very disturbing that we were attacked by other "friends" who disapproved strongly of what we had arranged for the newly-weds. Needless to say that these small minded, homophobe people are not counted among our friends anymore.

PS: it is of importance that Mrs R and I myself are active members within the Parish Church Council.

[kea]

There seems to be an almost superstitious fear.

Well, to put my response more into context, homophobia seems to be a very instinctual, unconscious response for some people—I've not been able to figure out why. Perhaps some deep-seated insecurity about gender identity, I don't know; that's for a psychologist to figure out. However, many people are made uncomfortable by their homophobia, either due to finding it irrational or unethical or simply due to the realisation that it's no longer socially acceptable, and make an effort to become more accepting. Some succeed better than others of course (if I had an article of women's clothing for every time I've heard "I don't care if people are gay but I wish they wouldn't flaunt it so publicly", I'd be able to outfit all the drag queens in San Francisco).

The really poisonous ones however are those who think that because they have such a belief, that belief is objectively correct; that doubt equals weakness. Thus it is of paramount importance to force that belief on everyone else regardless of consensus. I say "poisonous" because this is the belief that murderers and rapists and war criminals are made out of (and something that everyone should be wary of in their own psychology as well).

[Serial_Apologist]

Well, to put my response more into context, homophobia seems to be a very instinctual, unconscious response for some people—I've not been able to figure out why. Perhaps some deep-seated insecurity about gender identity, I don't know; that's for a psychologist to figure out. However, many people are made uncomfortable by their homophobia, either due to finding it irrational or unethical or simply due to the realisation that it's no longer socially acceptable, and make an effort to become more accepting. Some succeed better than others of course (if I had an article of women's clothing for every time I've heard "I don't care if people are gay but I wish they wouldn't flaunt it so publicly", I'd be able to outfit all the drag queens in San Francisco).

The really poisonous ones however are those who think that because they have such a belief, that belief is objectively correct; that doubt equals weakness. Thus it is of paramount importance to force that belief on everyone else regardless of consensus. I say "poisonous" because this is the belief that murderers and rapists and war criminals are made out of (and something that everyone should be wary of in their own psychology as well).

The theory that I remember being put forward as to a lot of homophobia was the usual one of "unnaturalness", "it doesn't occur in nature" (whatever "nature" includes), etc etc., now of course shown to be incorrect. More disturbing were (and probably still are) people who said things such as, "Ooh, whenever I think of people 'doing it'" it puts me right off!" Well. there's one answer to that: "don't think about it!!!" - or, if you're thinking about gay sex in the midst of "doing it"you've got problems needing sorting. Or better still, perhaps, think how strange our sexuality must seem to a gay or lesbian person, and thank god that the Good Brian designs it that way as part of Her Cosmic Purpose!!!

[amateur51]

Many thanks for the OP, shb and to the other posters for such sensible and moving posts.

I truly never thought I'd see this day - the pace of change over the past fifteen years has been extraordinary and is most welcome.

Roehre's story deserves to be made into a drama - I wonder if Alan Bennett reads posts on this Forum

[Ferretfancy]

The theory that I remember being put forward as to a lot of homophobia was the usual one of "unnaturalness", "it doesn't occur in nature" (whatever "nature" includes), etc etc., now of course shown to be incorrect. More disturbing were (and probably still are) people who said things such as, "Ooh, whenever I think of people 'doing it'" it puts me right off!" Well. there's one answer to that: "don't think about it!!!" - or, if you're thinking about gay sex in the midst of "doing it"you've got problems needing sorting. Or better still, perhaps, think how strange our sexuality must seem to a gay or lesbian person, and thank god that the Good Brian designs it that way as part of Her Cosmic Purpose!!!

It interested me, as a gay person who was out at work, that the colleagues who were the most comfortable around gay people were the ones who were most happy in their own heterosexual identity. I do think there's something in the theory that much homophobia springs from the hidden fear that " I might be a bit that way myself"
I was lucky to have such good friends at work, even those who failed to understand, but then, ! was in a sheltered environment. ( The dear old Beeb! )

[Stillhomewardbound]

Sometimes life can be cruel. At others it can manage to very witty. Consider, for example, that the first same-sex marrriages will take place on Norman Tebbit's birthday!

If anyone wants a good explanation of what homophobia is all about then this 10.00 minute exposition by a Dublin drag artist, Panti Bliss, is as cogent as it gets.

Panti, otherwise known as Rory O'Neill, had appeared on a discussion panel with the state broadcaster RTE where she felt inclined to characterise some of the other participants as homophobic. She made this assertion on the basis that these were people who were very busy campaigning to stop gay people from being allowed to enjoy the institute of marriage.

Following the broadcast RTE very swiftly payed out large sums of money (far money than actually being sought in damages) to those who its lawyers advised them had been the victims of slander.

This is Panti's most eloquent and impassioned response:

http://youtu.be/WXayhUzWnl0

[Tevot]

Hello there,

Initially I thought this was a thread about the Bonas gal not yet ready to tie Prince Harry's Knot

I must agree with Ams about Roehre's post - what a great and funny and human story that would be

And thanks SHB for posting your thoughts.

Best Wishes,

Tevot

[Andrew353w]

Something remarkable happened just the other night and yet, no one seemed to notice. I'm talking about the legislation that has become active in England & Wales which now concedes that the joining of a man with a man, or a woman with a woman in common union is a marriage just like any other marriage. The same looks set to apply in Scotland and next year in Ireland this move will go to a referendum.

I, myself, currently have no same-sex partner in my life to whom I might propose marriage, but what matters is that I now have the right. As of today I now have that entitlement which I did not have before. What's more, I won't need to describe my union as merely a 'civil partnership' and no more will I suffer the indignity of being advised that my civil service could make no reference to my union as being a 'marriage', that I could not call my partner 'my husband', nor the prohibition of the music I might have had played at my service.

'I'm getting married in the morning', 'Daisy, daisy, give me your answer do' and/or 'Marry Me' were among the songs that the law of England & Wales stipulated I could not play since the introduction of the Civil Partnership Act.

I suppose some might suggest that I was being greedy in imagining that we could go from straights-only marriage to straight/same-sex marriage in one fell swoop.

Well, possibly not greedy, but certainly overly-optimistic.

Whatever, we are are there now and a distinction that had no right being in place has been vanished; and guess what? The clock still ticks. The son came up this morning as it always did and my mate Alex drove the 89 out of Plumstead Garriage as usual while my neighbour's kids tripped out to school as they do during term time.

But much more remarkable is that up and down our land there are straight married couples for whom their contract has not been in the least bit altered or debased. Quite simply, nothing has changed with the introduction of this revision of the marriage act. Such couples are no less married than they were and the family model has by no means disintegrated.

Archbishops of Canterbury & Westminster take note and consider that Canute is not your best role-model.

What HAS changed, though, quite massively, is that millions of LGBT folk are now one degree less discriminated against in their daily lives. They are one step closer to true equality with the common society of which they have always been a part and surely that is something that can only be applauded.

I won't be getting married in the morning to the lovely man that sometimes shares my bed anytime soon, but until midnight last night such a notion wasn't even a possibility.

I can only wonder that we had to push so hard against what should have been an open door.

Totally Agree, with one caveat; My wife & I are happily married, yet, should we have wished to, we would not have been allowed a "civil partnership". I have no worries with anyone, regardless of their sexual orientation being allowed to marry whomsoever they wish, but I also think anyone who wants a civil partnership should ALSO be allowed to register one (at present,as I understand it, I cannot register one.) After all, what's fair for one should be fair for anyone!

[Flosshilde]

Brilliant OP, SHB. I look forward to the same happening up here (although I don't think my partner & I will be taking advantage of ti).

& Andrew, I really don't understand why heterosexuals are so hung up on jumping onto the civil partnership bandwagon? Surely if you want a non-religious ceremony you just get married in a registry office?

[Karafan]

Great post shb. Yes, as our countries become more and more enlightened, other parts of the world slink back into a hate-filled abyss. A sad and strange state of affairs.

[Serial_Apologist]

Great post shb. Yes, as our countries become more and more enlightened, other parts of the world slink back into a hate-filled abyss. A sad and strange state of affairs.

An ironic state of affairs - payback for having imposed our Western religious values on other peoples as part of colonialism, I would argue.