West Coast Jazz / Shelly Manne & Andre Previn

[amateur51]

Amateur

Since we are on a thread about West Coast jazz perhaps you should check out Hampton Hawes. When I first got in to the music it was his album "The green leaves of autumn" that completely bowled me over. I love the swing and earthiness of his playing as well as the fact that he really knew how to play the blues. I never felt this was the case with Peterson.

If you like Previn and Peterson, the two obvious pianists to explore would be Nat king Cole and Teddy Wilson. I also like players such as Red Garland and Wynton Kelly from the 1950's but, to my ears, jazz piano really came in to it's own in the 1960's with the likes of Herbie Hancock. Another pianist who made his reputation on the West Coast was Paul Bley who is seriously over-looked but the total opposite of Peterson in his approach. The pianists are the real heroes of jazz and if you go back as far as Jelly Roll Morton and continue in to today's musicians like Jason Moran, you will hear some of the best jazz recorded. I would also strongly recommend Keith Jarrett's trio as he has enjoyed a similar, combined jazz and classical career like Previn and also primarily worked in a trio format. If you like jazz standards and show tunes, no one quite excels in this field like Jarrett. my own favourite is "The out of towners" which I think you would love.

It's funny how Classical music fans latch on to elements of jazz piano that are opposed to how some jazz fans see the same instrument. I can see why Classical fans might hate someone like Thelonious Monk whereas jazz fans would tend to overlook the absence of a Previn-esuqe technique for the shear originality and good-naturedness of the music.

Plenty of new names there for me to explore, many thanks Ian

I've 'discovered' and enjoyed Thelonius Monk, Errol Garner, Michel Petrucciani and Jessica Williams all by myself

[clive heath]

One of Hampton Hawes' recordings is on my site currently. I was amused reading Ian's holding of André Previn at arm's length ( German!, Classically trained !!!) as when the mechanical nature of Previn's playing was suggested the first person I thought of was, yes, Hampton Hawes who turns out to be a hero. Maybe. Another classically trained pianist, organ scholar at Oxford, no less, was Dudley Moore who I enjoyed at Ronnie's Old Club in the early 60s. He too, had brilliant technique, supposedly playing thru' the 48 every day, but he could be down-to-earth and basic when the spirit moved. The pianists who can lose the beat and then find it again so that your equilibrium is disturbed are the ones to treasure. It seems to be much easier to do this over a rhythm section than when most of your job is to be part of one. Earl Hines and the Boogie guys, Buck Washington, Garland Wilson etc. could do this and of course Fats.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Those with a certain maturity/bus pass will recall Previn's hip little hit 45, "Like Young" from 1959 with David Rose...much liked by early mods...if not Mingus modernists.

Still bluesy and attractive...and thats just.me.

BN.

Itz on Utube...the orig version is best.

[Ian Thumwood]

The pianists who can lose the beat and then find it again so that your equilibrium is disturbed are the ones to treasure..

Absolutely nails it for me! I think this is why I love Jarrett's trio so much and also why the rubato intros on Hawes' "Green leaves of summer" are so compelling. Oddly, I feel that Previn is someone who can play around with the beat yet if he is mechanical or predictable, I would have to argue that it is the way I which he constructs his solos. On the CD I've been listening to this week I felt this was more of an issue for him on up-tempo numbers. You can often second guess what Previn will do whereas, to pick one of your examples, a pianist like Earl Hines was so unpredictable you sensed he had sometimes lost himself. I find Hines to be the most "outside" of the jazz pianists to emerge in the 1920's and I have always loved his playing since I first discovered him when I was about 14.

These days it is rare for a jazz pianist not to have had Classical training and the barriers between the two oeuvres are far fuzzier than they were when Previn started to record jazz. These days I feel Previn seems very polite in comparison with say Keith Jarrett and if this style of jazz piano has contemporary parallels I would say that Bill Charlap would be the obvious example. Again, Charlap has a fine technique and a touch that is the rival of Bill Evans. That said, he is another player besotted with show tunes and perhaps his association with the late Sir Richard Rodney Bennett is suggestive of a player who is going to attract plaudits from the more Classically-orientated audience.

This feels more like what the best of West Coast jazz piano could offer. You can appreciate that he had been listening to Bill Evans but Hawes plays with such a degree of freedom and lightness that the results are irresistible. The bass and drums are superb. I would also have to argue that the solos seems to develop organically and has a degree of architecture that shows a wonderful gift for a cohesive improvised line. I feel that Previn's ideas are more episodic. Both Previn and Hawes swing yet the latter sounds more credible to me.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

Ams when you tire of the list so far may i recommend Tommy Flanagan
'The Jazz Poet'

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

[amateur51]

Ams when you tire of the list so far may i recommend Tommy Flanagan
'The Jazz Poet'

Recommend away Calum - I am .. receptive Many thanks

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I think Hamp Hawes had one of the most individual and crisp "touches" in jazz...almost as if he was playing vibes at times. Glorious player...and later (post prison) much influenced by Bill Evans.

Keef Jarhead was very dismissive of Previn. "When I was a teenager I thought he was a jazz pianist." Ouch.

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

West Coast test Card music:-

I find this kind of music difficult to categorize. Granted the piano playing is good but the strings are pretty ordinary. This kind of stuff is like a photocopy of jazz as opposed to the real thing. Not too far removed from the kind of stuff produced by the Swingle Singers. It sounds like jazz but there is something suspicious about it as if there is a degree of shame in the direct earthiness of more authentic stylists. Sorry, this is pretty piss poor.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Ian, you needed to hear it in context!...1959, Italian suits, Sunset Strip, Too Late Blues, Route 66, all that era. Before the Beatles and Jamie Cullum....

BN

Lucky to find a "jazz" 45 on a UK jukebox....well, apart from Elvis with Max Roach.

[Ian Thumwood]

Calum

That is exactly it! Tommy Flanagan was a maestro and you could say the same of Hank Jones. They could cross over into more commercial territory but they never lost their integrity. I was a bit ambivalent about Hank Jones although I never felt the degree of negativity about his playing that Previn provokes. I've heard him perform a few times live but it was the quartet with Joe Lovano which made me understand that he was s towering giant of his instrument. Not a note was wasted and there was an economy about his approach that stripped the music of anything superfluous. As for his touch, it was absolutely exquisite. Hearing him perform was something of a road to Damascus experience and again Amateur51 would be recommended to search out his music. I would also add that there is a logic with his improvised lines just as was the case with Hawes - again, another trait I love with jazz. Obviously the other example missing from the list is Kenny Barron who is one of my piano playing heroes.

If ever Alyn decides to run a series on JRR regarding the most perfect jazz solo, the piano solo by Kenny Barron on this Abbey Lincoln track would get my vote although the whole of this track is terrific. Still, this comes from one of the best jazz albums from the 1990's and , from my experience, the best recommendation from my days of listening to the old "impressions" programme :-

[Ian Thumwood]

Ian, you needed to hear it in context!...1959, Italian suits, Sunset Strip, Too Late Blues, Route 66, all that era. Before the Beatles and Jamie Cullum....

BN

Lucky to find a "jazz" 45 on a UK jukebox....well, apart from Elvis with Max Roach.

It puts me in mind of people wearing mustard coloured flares , heinous floral wallpaper and Blue Nun wine. A bit like that clip in "Life on mars" where John Sims had to cover undercover at a swinger's party and the hostess offered to out a record on. "Oh, not bloody Santana!"

Funny how Andre Previn & strings passed as easy listening in the early 70's and today we have Robbie Williams. I suppose that is a regression of sorts. Where would we be without The Beatles!!

[Ian Thumwood]

Calum

That is exactly it! Tommy Flanagan was a maestro and you could say the same of Hank Jones. They could cross over into more commercial territory but they never lost their integrity. I was a bit ambivalent about Hank Jones although I never felt the degree of negativity about his playing that Previn provokes. I've heard him perform a few times live but it was the quartet with Joe Lovano which made me understand that he was s towering giant of his instrument. Not a note was wasted and there was an economy about his approach that stripped the music of anything superfluous. As for his touch, it was absolutely exquisite. Hearing him perform was something of a road to Damascus experience and again Amateur51 would be recommended to search out his music. I would also add that there is a logic with his improvised lines just as was the case with Hawes - again, another trait I love with jazz. Obviously the other example missing from the list is Kenny Barron who is one of my piano playing heroes.

[Serial_Apologist]

Calum

That is exactly it! Tommy Flanagan was a maestro and you could say the same of Hank Jones. They could cross over into more commercial territory but they never lost their integrity. I was a bit ambivalent about Hank Jones although I never felt the degree of negativity about his playing that Previn provokes. I've heard him perform a few times live but it was the quartet with Joe Lovano which made me understand that he was s towering giant of his instrument. Not a note was wasted and there was an economy about his approach that stripped the music of anything superfluous. As for his touch, it was absolutely exquisite. Hearing him perform was something of a road to Damascus experience and again Amateur51 would be recommended to search out his music. I would also add that there is a logic with his improvised lines just as was the case with Hawes - again, another trait I love with jazz. Obviously the other example missing from the list is Kenny Barron who is one of my piano playing heroes.

Ian
I don't know what you've been imbibing today but you're certainly on form! I agree with practically everything you've said about Peterson and Previn. The one thing I do not quite agree with is that piano duets in jazz need to be restrained to work. Howard Riley and Jaki Byard? Keith Tippett and Stan Tracey? Albert Ammons and Pete Johnson? I could probably summon up others - the point being hat in all these cases, the more unrestrained the better. It's that magicof true jazz that passeth all understanding that sometimes happens when musicians get lost. and to me its a shame that that aspect of "getting lost" has somehow been codified into much contemporary jazz of today.

[burning dog]

Hank Jones was a marvellous musician. I feel I took him for granted at one time. A few bars intro from him could set the mood for an entire piece.