Coltrane Semper Coltrane...

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Listening to the box set/out takes of the first Impulse recording of the classic Coltrane Qrt...."Coltrane!", avec Garrison..."Out of this World" etc and struck yet again just how fantastic this band was from top to bottom....the detail in Elvin's drums. .......that "lope"...

Easy to get blase over time....BUT!



BN.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

yep [which box set]

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

The Impulse Delux set from that date..."Coltrane" ...April, June, Nov 1962....with a stack of extra tunes/takes...Tunji, Miles Modes, Impressions, Big Nick etc...

Just as much a revelation as when I bought the original album in the 60s. Blue sleeve.

On ANOTHER level. You think you know this stuff backwards and it still knocks you sideways.

I go thro waves of listening....a while ago it was Bud Powell...now back on a complete Coltrane kick....its good to go home again!

BN.

[Tenor Freak]

as it happens I am working on a Coltrane transcription, none other than David Baker's of Giant Steps. I copied it from the April '94 edition of Downbeat. I am about half way through it, still a remarkable piece over 50 years since JC cut it.

those early quartets are incredible

[Serial_Apologist]

as it happens I am working on a Coltrane transcription, none other than David Baker's of Giant Steps. I copied it from the April '94 edition of Downbeat. I am about half way through it, still a remarkable piece over 50 years since JC cut it.

those early quartets are incredible

How very true. Several decades ago I picked up an LP with one Coltrane track - a live recording of Mr PC from Paris in 1962 - the Quintet with Dolphy. I think it was one of those I Grandi Di Jazz series - anyway it was the "wrong" album in a diferent cover, and I returned it to the shop. After taping that one track. Speaking later to A Well-Known Saxophone Player who is known for being a Coltrane authority (who had better remain nameless) he insisted that there were no recordings of Mr PC with Dolphy. I'm sorry he'd missed this one.

Incidentally Giant Steps, in the original keys, is a great exercise piece for learning how to improvise through rapid modulations in sharp and flat keys, I've discovered as a would-(never)-be jass pianist.

[burning dog]

. Several decades ago I picked up an LP with one Coltrane track - a live recording of Mr PC from Paris in 1962 - .

http://grooveshark.com/#!/search/son...Dolphy+Mr.+P.C.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

"It took me six months to play Giant Steps and I was in prison!" ~ Jackie Mclean.

'They may call you a genius but you aint shit until you can play the blues and Giant Steps in every key!" ~ Jimmy Jamerson to (a young) Stevie Wonder.

BN.

[clive heath]

Agree totally about the Giant Steps changes, even when you've got them it's not easy to find different patterns on second etc. choruses. It's not always a natural recollection that Tommy Flanagan was the pianist on most tracks.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Cedar Walton on the very first recording....who was afraid to solo!

BN.

[Serial_Apologist]

Cedar Walton on the very first recording....who was afraid to solo!

BN.

Alan Skidmore told an audience that, after the first time hearing Giant Steps, he nearly took the saxophone back to the shop!

[Serial_Apologist]

'They may call you a genius but you aint shit until you can play the blues and Giant Steps in every key!" ~ Jimmy Jamerson to (a young) Stevie Wonder.

BN.

But it is in every key!!! (Slight exaggeration)

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

But it is in every key!!! (Slight exaggeration)

Cedar Walton.....



CW: When it was time for me to solo
during the session, I declined.
JW: Why?
CW: The song was too hard for me.
But you just didn't do that. I was
young. I should have done what
Flanagan did—take a solo on the
break.
JW: Did you tell Coltrane it was too
hard?
CW: No but they knew what I meant
when I waved off the opportunity. I
know now you just don't do that.
JW: You also recorded Naima and
Countdown, which is taken at
breakneck speed.
CW: Naima was a piece of cake
compared to Giant Steps.
JW: What made Giant Steps so hard
for a solo?
CW: The way John conceived of the
harmonies. They were totally
original. Those harmonies aren't
easy to manipulate on any
instrument, let alone the piano. I
should have taken a solo. I was just
too young.


BN.

[Serial_Apologist]

Interesting - thanks for that, Bluesie.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i found this a helpful exposition of Coltrane's methods in GS

[Ian Thumwood]

Calum

I can just about follow the theory on the link but I am not quite convinced that this really represents "genius." The harmony is essentially based on mathematical musical patterns even if it is interesting that the changes link sequences from unrelated keys. I feel that this "genius" is still hanging it's hat on II-V-I patterns - for me the "real" genius is when you start to build sequences of chords which don't follow chromatic or diatonic norms such as you might find in a Herbie Nichol's tune. These days most jazz composition has transcended the I--V-I patterns and compositions by the likes of Tom Harrell, Pat Metheny or Dave Douglas show even more sophisticated patterns that appear to be built of unrelated chords.

I can totally appreciate that the break-neck speed of the changes of "Giant steps" represent an obstacle course for soloists. I've never really played this tune but the speed at which the chords approach makes it very difficult. You are probably quite lucky in that your can use substitutions with so many dominant chords yet this is one tune that I think would actually sound better with no harmony instrument.

There is some great music on this album yet I much prefer Coltrane's later work. For me, "Giant steps" seems like the natural conclusion of bebop and after using a fast moving and complex sequence it is not difficult to appreciate why the simpler and more open modal approach or even the New Thing stuff he recorded in the mid 1960's illustrated how he overcame the need to a chord sequence that ploughed through most of the possible tonal centres.