... just a sittin' and a rockin'

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i do not find Stan Tracey a big band leader or orchestrator; he writes and arranges for diverse ensembles ... all his music swings and is interesting .... but Stan is a voice, an angle, a sound but not a band ... not like the Americans or John Dankworth Alyn made an extremely good start but there is a lot more that can be done to recall his works on R3

the Bley Trio set is a poser innit, subtle and soft, too much so perhaps ... but it grows i find .. i can imagine the album becoming indispensable, i am still enjoying Sheppard's Trio Libero as well his work with Carla 'n Steve....

[Old Grumpy]

the Bley Trio set is a poser innit, subtle and soft, too much so perhaps ... but it grows i find .. i can imagine the album becoming indispensable, i am still enjoying Sheppard's Trio Libero as well his work with Carla 'n Steve....

and

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Michael Gove has just said that anyone criticising British big bands will be forced over the top (of the brass section) to meet the advancing Kurt Edelhagen brigade band. Hayes and Deuchar have already deserted to Kurt's ranks.

No more "conchies"/ Vote UKIP/Be shot.


BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

Oldball

I think it is also worth noting that back in the 60's and early 70's many of the legendary big band leaders were still active. When the likes of Benny Goodman or Woody Herman decided to put together a band of British musicians, this was a major event. BG's British band was still being talked about 10-15 years later by fans I know and to many more "traditional" fans, the likes of Herman or Goodman leading a British band would have seemed even more of an endorsement than Kenton or Ellington have the odd Brit "sitting in" with their orchestras. It is worthwhile remembering that Goodman, Herman or even Les Brown would still have had a loyal following in the UK up until the mid 80's at least. Even Gil Evans' 1980's band including the likes of John Surman represented a major coup that perhaps would not be so startling nowadays. I suppose the MU ban must have had a very bad impact upon the ability of British bands to assimilate American ideas yet if you look outside towards Europe it is not as if big bands from France or even Scandinavian countries had a head start or produced big bands any better than in the UK. I feel British big band music could still claim to be "second" after their American equivalents despite the gap being greater then as it is now. Ok, there might have been the odd individual like Martial Solal producing some note worthy big band music as well as the Danish Radio Big Band yet I'm scratching my head to think of any others that would compare to the examples listed by Bluesnik.

To my ears, listening to British jazz up until the 1960's was a bit of a lottery for there were relatively few musicians at the time who were genuinely "World Class" or at least better than journeymen. I grew up listening to jazz with the impression that British rhythm sections were a bit leaden and no comparison to their American counterparts whether driven by Papa Jo Jones or Philly Jo Jones. Nowadays this criticism can seem harsh even if a celebrated record like Tubby Hayes' "Down in the village" does seem weighed down by the stiff piano /bass / drums or , at best, sounds a bit mundane if you listen to any Blue Note record of the period. With this in mind, I must admit that I am quite grateful that British arrangers were beginning to write for bands that could still swing and were genuine jazz units as opposed to the earlier bands that inhabited the post hotels in London. Ok, the music evokes an era but I am glad they exist and can appreciate what a revelation they must have been to the British jazz audience even if not as fresh as original as your Brookmeyers, Evans's or even Basie's "New Testament" band. For this reason, I would tend not to be so harsh as BN.

These days we are used to Americans touring with either totally British bands or groups featuring a mixture from either side of the Atlantic and the interchange is both faster and more thorough. Without your Dankworths, Tracey's, Tubby Hayes and later individuals like Chris McGregor, Mike Gibbs, etc Britain's big band heritage would have been significantly poorer.

[Alyn_Shipton]

Calum
Re your point about more to be done - Geoffrey S is devoting his programme to Stan on 19 Jan. And my programme was all the first wave of listeners' choices. Many more have come in since the broadcast. I agree with your point about the originality of Stan's "voice".
That Bley trio - fell asleep during their Cheltenham gig a couple of years back. Woke up when Paolo Fresu came on and injected some life into the proceedings...

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

As to other countries...I was listening to a CD of Chet Bakers Italian film soundtrack recordings of the late 50s and they with a Italian written and performed BB were surprisingly good.

BN.

I remember John Surman saying that Ronnie Scott wanted their late 60s band to sound in that certain "Brit tradition"...then they all left...

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

And finally...do not forget the amount of TV work these British guys were doing. Fine for the rent but not always positive in other ways. There is a horrible slide sometimes in style and genre. Parkinson's 'swinging' big (show) bands.

Let A. bombs fall on Sunday Night at the Palladium and all the like. The Corn, The Corn, The Orror, The Orror.

BN.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

Calum
Re your point about more to be done - Geoffrey S is devoting his programme to Stan on 19 Jan. And my programme was all the first wave of listeners' choices. Many more have come in since the broadcast. I agree with your point about the originality of Stan's "voice".
That Bley trio - fell asleep during their Cheltenham gig a couple of years back. Woke up when Paolo Fresu came on and injected some life into the proceedings...

no drummer innit, no bombs and rolls to wake em all up ..

good to hear there will be more about our Stanley ... Aunt must have a sizeable archive of him in action at her premises etc ....

with the usual abruptness Jazz FM has gone from the DAB offer, online only .... so no threat there eh for Jazz on R3?

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

No fkg loss and national DAB is crumbling into the sea.

Fortunately I have my 1967 Grundig "Jazz Boy" pointed at WBGO. With a bit of fence wire running up to the chimney.

BN.

[Quarky]

Re: Jazz FM, this is really a most peculiar station, having more to do with popular soul music than Jazz. Judging by the non-musical features and adverts, it is aimed at the YUPPEE market.

Anyhow, I'm not sure how it works, but they still are broadcasting on DAB but (at low power?) from selected transmitters only. I can get it, being in the region around London. It is also available on Freeview on TV set, and of course online.

Re: Jon3 last night - A repeat, but glad it was repeated. Interesting to compare the two groups. Laura Jurd/ Lauren Kinsella a grade above the other group Black Top, IMV.

[Serial_Apologist]

Laura Jurd's was probably the more competent group, convention-wise, but Black Top by far the more interesting, ime.

We need the YIPPEE demographic catered for. The Hippee Yippee Shakers.

"You got penty time to shake when you get old" - Miles Davis's teacher on the subject of using a vibrato or not... using... one...

[Paul Campbell]

WBGO is excellent, and is often on my wireless too. Well worth checking out, and just down the dial, is WKCR. That is not an all Jass station, but it takes jazz seriously and caters for folks like us. For example, an in depth hour of Bird every morning is ok by me. Unfortunately, our own flagship channel can't manage an in-depth hour of anything in the morning these days...

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

KCSM

jazz from San Francisco .....

and from LA KJazz

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

WFMU for wall to wall ultra rare scratchy 50s R&B, wacko Gospel,Deeeep Soul and out of tune Surf....Ok, my secret vice (s).

BN.

[burning dog]

WFMU for wall to wall ultra rare scratchy 50s R&B, wacko Gospel,Deeeep Soul and out of tune Surf....Ok, my secret VICE (s).

BN.

Have you none?