... just a sittin' and a rockin'

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

Alyn is remembering the late Stan Tracey, from Under Milk Wood in 1965 to The Flying Pig in 2013. Now where where those C90s?

Julian

Julian Joseph presents concert music by pianist Carla Bley, bassist Steve Swallow and saxophonist Andy Sheppard recorded at the Wigmore Hall as part of the 2013 London Jazz Festival. The trio revisit some classic Bley compositions alongside her arrangement of Thelonious Monk's Misterioso.

...er more C90s please

Geoffrey does Duke, including the 1934 Solitude, a compelling masterpiece of the art of jazz ...

Jez

Jazz on 3 is visiting the historic Maida Vale studios for the first time ever. Jez Nelson hosts an exclusive session in front of a live audience, featuring bands that represent the best of two different generations of UK jazz.

The musicians of Black Top have been at the cutting edge of the music for over 20 years and present their first ever full-length broadcast as a band. This freely improvising group includes saxophonist Steve Williamson, Orphy Robinson (percussion), Pat Thomas (piano) and Byron Wallen (trumpet), plus a special guest, HKB Finn, adding spontaneous spoken-word nuggets to the music.

Young trumpeter and composer Laura Jurd has recently emerged as one to watch, making waves with her imaginative and ambitious material at the helm of various ensembles as part of the Chaos Collective. Here she presents her quintet, featuring Lauren Kinsella's free-ranging vocals.

did you see that pack of C90s?

[Paul Campbell]

Thanks Calum, by complete coincidence i was just contemplating ordering the Carla Bley "Trios" cd.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Quelle surprise Alyn!

"Little Klunk'

Many thanks....forgot to follow up my suggestion...


BN.

[Serial_Apologist]

Thanks Calum, by complete coincidence i was just contemplating ordering the Carla Bley "Trios" cd.

Her trio with Steve and Andy seems to have taken the principle of less being more to a new level, if today's listening was anything to go by, offering what I guess could become a new route to that much-cherished but decreasingly evidenced virtue, originality, namely by so limiting the range of pitches at ones disposal for improvising that others can assume the mantel just by playing those that are being avoided.

[Paul Campbell]

Her trio with Steve and Andy seems to have taken the principle of less being more to a new level, if today's listening was anything to go by, offering what I guess could become a new route to that much-cherished but decreasingly evidenced virtue, originality, namely by so limiting the range of pitches at ones disposal for improvising that others can assume the mantel just by playing those that are being avoided.

I must admit to being a little under-whelmed by the broadcast, but still purchased the album as a download. Initial impressions are very favorable though; and the ECM recording (even on MP3) is stunning. Manfred has captured Andy's tone perfectly. I look forwarded to a good few listens to this, I think it will grow on me nicely. I do have to be in the mood for ECM though

[Serial_Apologist]

I must admit to being a little under-whelmed by the broadcast, but still purchased the album as a download. Initial impressions are very favorable though; and the ECM recording (even on MP3) is stunning. Manfred has captured Andy's tone perfectly. I look forwarded to a good few listens to this, I think it will grow on me nicely. I do have to be in the mood for ECM though

I didn't realise that ECM had recorded Glen Miller, Paul.

[Old Grumpy]

Thanks Calum, by complete coincidence i was just contemplating ordering the Carla Bley "Trios" cd.

Do that!

It's excellent - Santa brought it for me

OG

[Ian Thumwood]

I find Andy Sheppard a strange musician to listen to. He was well known around these parts prior to the "jazz boom" in the mid 1980's and I can recall hearing him around 1985 when he was performing "Energy music" with his quartet Sphere. When he eventually broke on the national scene it was hard not to think of him as a playing who followed popular trends , going from Hard bop to sub-Garbarek. I've never been too fussed by anything he has recorded under his own name and was surprised when he fetched up in Carla Bley's band. Having said that, he has certainly found a home in her various bands and I have thoroughly enjoyed his contribution to her groups.

Listening to JRR throughout a traffic jam on the M3 coming out of the football this evening I was amazed at just how good Stan Tracey was. I was never really a huge fan (although I liked what he did ) and suppose took his music for granted. Sometimes his piano playing could be a bit percussive and his big band writing squarely centred in the "tradition." I always liked the fact that his playing owed a lot to Duke Ellington as did his writing yet he never seemed to be particularly modish. Like a lot of players from the 50's and 60's, he is one of the players who I feel I need to re-visit. He never really seemed "modern" to me or to follow trends whilst oddly fitting in with some musicians you might have considered to be unsympathetic. Obviously, there was quite a bit of Monk in his playing although I feel that he was essentially filtering Ellington's style of piano playing to the Modern jazz of the 50's/ 60's. As I stated on another thread over the holiday, for me it is those players like Monk, Nichols, Hill and Moran who are branches from the Ellington tree that really matter when it comes to jazz piano. You would have to include ST in the category.

The music played tonight was terrific but two tracks stood out - even after the stonking big band track at the beginning. I was staggered at the quality of the duet with Keith Tippett. This music was mesmerising and, to be honest, I didn't really want the music to stop. Tippett is a strange musician for me as I find some of his stuff fascinating and other projects less so. Tracey sounded true to himself whilst fitting on exactly to the strange concept of this music. I find freely improvised music to often be extremely disappointing and the premises rarely, in my opinion, live up to the results. In this instance the result was musical alchemy and truly represented what is best about improvised music. Incredible to think that this was produced spontaneously whereas a classical composer would have received a lot of kudos had he written that duet. This was one of the most compelling pieces of music I've heard on JRR for ages.

The other intriguing recording was the one from "Little Klunk" where it was possible to see exactly how influenced ST was by Herbie Nichols. However, the whole programme was a pleasure to listen to and demonstrated how it is possible to remain firmly rooted in the jazz tradition yet still able to apply your music to more "progressive" idioms. As a retrospect of his career, the programme served as a salutary reminding of just how potent the jazz mainstream remains and whilst I can appreciate the need for the music to evolve and regenerate, players like Stan Tracey demonstrated that there is still a basic truth within the jazz orthodoxy that will never be replaced.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Ian, I think you would enjoy "Little Klunk". It has a lot of the obliqueness of Elmo and Herbie and indeed, early Mal Waldron. I am far less a fan of the larger group projects.

BN.

[Quarky]

. I am far less a fan of the larger group projects.

BN.

Interesting comment, BN. I enjoyed the last big band number played on JRR, Kindly Leave the Stage, which showed a lot of originality in the arrangement and composition, but the initial large group numbers, with strings of soloists that I would grade goodish, but not very memorable, caused me to switch off last night.

But may be I just have something against big bands.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Interesting comment, BN. I enjoyed the last big band number played on JRR, Kindly Leave the Stage, which showed a lot of originality in the arrangement and composition, but the initial large group numbers, with strings of soloists that I would grade goodish, but not very memorable, caused me to switch off last night.

But may be I just have something against big bands.

A BIG generalisation I know but British b.b. writing of the Scott era...Tracey, Hayes, Scott, South etc. always sounds dated to me. Esp. when you look at what Evans, Brookmeyer, Nelson and Gerald Wilson were doing at the same time. I really did like that last track though.


BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

BN

I agree to an extent but I think that you need to bear in mind the fact that British bog bands were drawn from a quite small pool of musicians and were often largely made up of members from Ted Heath's band. You could also add Humphrey Lyttelton's big band music of this era to the list albeit he was very fortunate to have assistance from the great Buck Clayton. By and large, I don't think this is a bad body of work and as for your list, is there anything from the 1960's that has dated quite as much as Oliver Nelson's writing? Granted Nelson could produce some Third Stream stuff that is under estimated, his work with Jimmy Smith, etc is enjoyable but not too remarkable. For me, if I have an issue, it is the spectre of Heath's band that looms behind so much big band music in the UK at that time. I would also suggest that the composers you mention were a marked improvement on the British big bands of 30's to 50's and perhaps the gap between the likes of Hayes' records and the Americans you list and say Basie's band of 1930's and what was going on in Britain at the same time had narrowed considerably. Go back twenty years and you are having to list individual records as opposed to bands as matching what was going on in the States. I think you might need to cast your net wider before making a comparison and consider what was being performed elsehwere in Europe or indeed what some of the more mainsteam bands like Rich, James, Herman, Kenton, Brown or even Ted Heath were producing. Admitedly, bands like Hermans would have roasted most big bands in the UK at the time but leaders like Herman had led bands for nearly 30 years by the time Hayes made records and was good enough to continue to attract the very6 best5 musicians. In the 1960's the gulf between US and UK still seemed insurmountable.

I love big band jazz and would tend not to be too harsh with music that is 50 years old and largely written at a time when British jazz had not really found a unique voice.

[Serial_Apologist]

I agree with Ian, Bluesie and Oddball as far as the arrangements of the Tubby Hayes and later in the 60s Stan Tracey big bands were concerned, but if we're talking British big bands jazz of the time surely lack of originality cannot be meted out at Dankworth's bands from the same period, from say "What the Dickens" to "The £1,000,000 Dollar Collection" - the former incorporating classical, folk and music hall idioms, not at all imitative of US big bands, the latter 12-tone rows, and very creative ways of dealing with them by soloists of the calibre of Tony Roberts and Henry Lowther. It was the latter band, expanded, that was offered to Kenny Wheeler to make his first big band recording in 1968, "Windmill Tilter", in which we hear the highly original voice of Kenny as player, composer and arranger, putting his own take on Gil Evans's voicings in a way distinctive from Neil Ardley in the latter's New Jazz Orchestra, also worthy of note.

[Ian Thumwood]

S~A

I grew up listening to big bands as this is where my Dad's interest initially lay. In simplistic terms, I suppose I was influenced in to listening to those big bands where jazz was a priority so that once I had been steered away from Glenn Miller, I was weened on Basie, Ellington, Goodman, Hampton, etc. By the time I was 15 I had started to explore further and was listening to Kirk, Henderson, MKCP, MBRB and Lucky Millinder before arriving at Dizzy Gillespie. These bands shaped how I perceived big bands should sound until my friend Dave put me on to Gil Evans. Listening to these groups somehow turned me off British big bands and Heath's orchestra, as good as unit as it was, seemed devoid of jazz and I have always treated it with suspicion.

I agree with your comments regarding Dankworth but my Dad used to say that JD's band was never as highly regarded as Heath's &I suppose that this is why his musicians seem to crop up so frequently in other line ups. I think that Dankworth's band was probably unfairly overlooked yet I think that he was a bit too "Establishment" to have the kudos of someone like Stan Tracey whose bands always seemed to be big bands for jazz fans. Whilst albums like "Windmill Tilter" areriginal, it is probably worth pointing out that Gil Evans' was moving towards freer and more Rock orientated scores at the same time and, for me, the most radical voice in the UK would have been Mike Gibbs who was moving away from the idea of trmpets / trombones / saxes as distinct and separate sections of the big band. Many of the writers on BN's list were probably more in line with an earlier tradition even if they should be applauded for perhaps not being quite as "wooden" as some fans believed British jazz to be at the time. There is, I feel, a tendancy for some British bands of that era to sound the same and the sound morphed in to a lot of the British film / TV of that time too. (Laurie Johnson, for example.) It's funny that these bands seem better in comparison with earlier efforts up to about 1960 as opposed to coming from listening to Mike Gibbs, BoB, Neil Ardeley, Loose Tubes, etc. Even some big bands lauded by the likes of TC on this board such as Kenny Graham seem pretty tame by comparison and when contrasted with their American counterparts such as Ellingt5on, Basie, Herman, etc, see pretty lame as well. However, I think you must see them as an improvement on what was produced in 30s and 40's when big bands of genuine jazz recordings in the UK of genuine jazz merit seem rare and almost an accident.

Looking at the history of big band jazz in the UK, the likes of Tracey and Hayes' sound like a breath of fresh air to what came previously and for me, the music may sound of it's era but so does some of Ellington's earlier work, a large swathe of Calloway's and even Gil Evans' approach on his best work seems symptomatic of jazz's cosier relationship with Classical music in the fifties and sixties. I would struggle to justify arguing that British big bands of that time could even begin to compare with what was happening in the US at the same time but it ultimately played a big part in forging a British jazz indentity.

[Quarky]

Reading Alyn's book on this subject, it seems that the ban by the Musicians' Union on foreign musicians after WWII had a lot to do with the development of British Jazz - or lack of it. In fact it would appear that we have the Beatles (and others), and their US visits, to thank for the resurgence in British Jazz!