Why don't jazzers record pop tunes any more?

[MrGongGong]

I'm surprised that you contest that it has been Black artists who have dominated and shaped 20th century popular music.

I don't contest that at all
but I do think that its nonsense to say that this makes it "superior"

[Beef Oven!]

I don't contest that at all
but I do think that its nonsense to say that this makes it "superior"

But you do accept that Elvis couldn't have done his thing without ''borrowing heavily from Black american culture", in the same way Jimi couldn't have done all that feedback stuff, if that white bloke hadn't invented electricity?

I ask ya, what kind of crap is this!!!?

[MrGongGong]

Elvis ?

Never loved Elvis

[Beef Oven!]

Elvis ?

Never loved Elvis

Not even Good Year For The Roses?

[burning dog]

But you do accept that Elvis couldn't have done his thing without ''borrowing heavily from Black american culture", in the same way Jimi couldn't have done all that feedback stuff, if that white bloke hadn't invented electricity?

I ask ya, what kind of crap is this!!!?

I agree hilarious, the idea that someone invented electricity!

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Electricity was invented by a fish.

Respect where its due.

BN.

[muzzer]

No, I never loved Elvis either. Write on, baby.

[muzzer]

Interesting too, I think, that after going as far as he did in his Agharta / Pangea period, Miles returned to contemporary pop standards (Human Nature, Time After Time etc). I like to think that this was about more than money making.

I think he probably felt lucky to be alive, let alone making music.....But also I think he was making the point that pop tunes were still ripe for interpretation. You'd struggle to do that these days with a Katy Perry tune, which is almost bereft of melody, being a series of hooks almost impossible to detach from the accompanying video in which KP 'ironically' makes her points.

And yes maybe it is just the effect of age. I'm sure after a certain point one looks and finds further depth in the melodies one knows really well, making it harder - but never impossible - to absorb new tunes. Hence the preponderance [not here] of excuses for ageing rockers.......

[MrGongGong]

modern pop has little to do with great songwriting or even music in some cases.

I'm puzzled by why you might think it has little to do with music ?

Unless your definition of music is 'sounds that I like'

[Beef Oven!]

I'm puzzled by why you might think it has little to do with music ?

Unless your definition of music is 'sounds that I like'

But that would never do!

I mean, if we used that as a definition, Coltrane (the one exception where jazzers seem not to refer to the person by their Christian name) was not making music!

And 'The Shape Of Jazz To Come' was, as Ian Thumwood calls them, a 'miscalculation'.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Elvis was Welsh. This constant sneering at him is yet another example of big nation imperialism.

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

Beef

I would be intrigued to know which pop "artists" are genuinely sitting down and writing music or play the instruments on their records. It would also be interesting to know which singers are regularly using Auto tune. The material produced is suggestive that the results are generated by commercial factors more than musical ones to a greater degree than in the past. If you pick the bones apart, there is nothing going on at all. I have downloaded some pop tunes from Musicroom in the past as I have been curious to how they work and whether I could improvise on them. The lead sheets are usually very disappointing and the harmonies are usually incorrect or simplified to the extent that they are not right. (Example: "Single ladies" by Beyonce.) Back in the day, writers like Ellington would employ others to ensure that the music was correctly written when it was published for popular consumption. I not convinced that pop musicians in 21st century are quite so interested in the music even if you have examples like Laura Mvula who I understand is interested in things like key changes, using clusters as harmony and how her music is orchestrated. She does come from a Classical background, though. Not heard her music so can't say any more but I would suggest this would be missing from the likes of Katy Perry.

I sometimes think that there is a type of musician who is continually re-thinking about how music should be put together and would include people like JS Bach, Bela Bartok or John Coltrane in to this category. Ditto Ornette too even though there is a lot of the blues in his music. A thorough exploration of a theme on say the "One up, one down" live performance by Coltrane is the antithesis of pop music. Ditto with Bach preludes and fugues where there is more musical interest in about 4 bars than in the whole 3 mins of most chart music. Don't see why you feel this is so controversial.

Cheers

Ian

[MrGongGong]

I would be intrigued to know which pop "artists" are genuinely sitting down and writing music or play the instruments on their records.

I'm intrigued by your 'understanding' of how music is devised and created.
You seem to fall into the trap of thinking that harmonic , melodic and rhythmic complexity are somehow a measure of quality or value.
In the music you make what is the process of composition / devising ?
There is a huge risk of making comparisons which take no account of context... as in, 'the problem with Mahler's symphonies is that they don't have interesting lyrics' !!

Most of the 'jazz' that you are mentioning seems to my ears to be relatively musically 'safe'.

[Paul Campbell]

. Coltrane (the one exception where jazzers seem not to refer to the person by their Christian name).

One tends not to refer to a brother, or sister, by their surname

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I'm intrigued by your 'understanding' of how music is devised and created.
You seem to fall into the trap of thinking that harmonic , melodic and rhythmic complexity are somehow a measure of quality or value.
In the music you make what is the process of composition / devising ?
There is a huge risk of making comparisons which take no account of context... as in, 'the problem with Mahler's Hesymphonies is that they don't have interesting lyrics' !!

Most of the 'jazz' that you are mentioning seems to my ears to be relatively musically 'safe'.

Hey, here's a thought.

Maybe you just don't like jazz.

BN.