Why don't jazzers record pop tunes any more?

[duncan]

Some do.

[duncan]

Brad plays Radiohead

[duncan]

Another take on Nirvana

[duncan]

Another Radiohead cover, with a gracious nod to Herbie

[duncan]

Jason Moran plays Afrika Bambaataa

[Tenor Freak]

Duncan, thanks for those links...I forgot that Herbie Hancock released an album of pop tunes some time ago and of course more recently he had an album of Joanie Mitchell songs.

The only thing I'd say about these is that the original artists (Radiohead, Nirvana) are at the serious end of the rock/pop spectrum. Where are the covers of less well-regarded popstars? That's one of the things I liked about Sonny Rollins - if the tune was good the source was unimportant. (Cf. I'm An Old Cowhand and There's No Business Like Show Business). The one time I saw Sonny play live, he performed Stevie Wonder's Isn't She Lovely - not a tune generally known as a standard.

I agree with BD who observed that many contemporary pop tunes have changes which vary little and seemingly offer little to improvisers - which is why they are not covered so much.

[MrGongGong]

I would be fascinated for someone to point out to be what is so good about either the original or the cover version of that track. It does absolutely nothing and even if you argue along minimalist lines, it hardly compares to Reich or Glass. It staggers me how an argument can be advanced in favour of anything so pointless. Seriously, there is nothing to it.As a musical idea it's infantile.

Why do you want all your music to fulfil the same function ?
Music is sometimes a place to be not a journey

Note to self 'throw away Laibach CDs'

The only thing I'd say about these is that the original artists (Radiohead, Nirvana) are at the serious end of the rock/pop spectrum.

What on earth do you mean by "serious" ?
The most "serious" musicians I have met are teenage and in pop bands... much more "serious" than Cage, Lutoslawski, Tippet, Lucier, or any of the other "serious" composers and musicians I have met

[burning dog]

I agree with BD who observed that many contemporary pop tunes have changes which vary little and seemingly offer little to improvisers - which is why they are not covered so much.

I'm not saying that Jazz NEEDS to have complex changes though.
When I heard Sonny live he ran around The EastEnders theme and "London Bridge is Falling Down" in the course of a solo. Funny as the concert was in Paris! (not really)

[burning dog]

Herbie Hancock has self-penned "Poppier" stuff than Radiohead and Nivarna

No Youtube of The Spice Girls Tune (which is pretty good)
but there's this

[Ian Thumwood]

It would be interest5ing to do a poll of "pop" artists who have had their work covered in the last 30 years. I guess that, Stevie Wonder, Sting and Bjork would be pretty high up and, as Bruce pointed out, these are the more "musical" acts. Granted there will be numerous one offs like the Sade track above.

One problem is that you need to completely re-harmonise most pop material and the lead sheets frequently have the wrong chords or are too simplistic. The score for "Single Ladies" is largely built around one chord yet Pamplemousse had to totally re-jig the harmonies and chopped out a whole section of the original tune. Much contemporary pop music is woeful and seems to offer little opportunies. Small wonder jazz musicians give it the bum's rush.

Bruce could also do worse than listen to Luciana Souza's excellent "The new bossa" where contemporary song writers like Randy Newman, Leonard Cohen, James Taylor and Sting all have their tunes re-set. I think there is also a Joni Mitchell track on there too. Not sure if you consider her a pop act? (I'm inclined to say no.) Ditto Carole King. Good songs will always attract jazz musicians yet I would distinguish this from commercial pop.

Intrigued by the comment about "serious" pop music. I agree with the remark about student bands but if you take someone like Morrissey he is about as serious as you can get but a musical non entity.

I would like to add another dimension to this topic and that is that black popular music is far superior to white artists and the music of Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, etc easily converts in to jazz and will continue to do so because of it's quality. Not5 so sure about Rap, mind. Having seen the likes of Earth , Wind and Fire, Al Green and Chic perform in the last few years, these are genuine musicians and frequently include jazz musicians in their ranks too. Compare and contrast with Artic Monkeys or Oasis who got lucky with little real talent. Amazed that someone like Adele is so lauded too. Evidence of a paucity of real talent and the music industry's desire to find the next Amy Winehouse.

[Paul Campbell]

What an interesting thread; though personally speaking, the concept of improvising on contemporary pop tunes sounds somewhat anachronistic. Perhaps after Cecil, Ornette, Albert etc the interests of many are simply elsewhere these days. Improvising on current pop songs ain't hip, but that does not necessarily imply criticism of contemporary tunage. Production seems to be all important in the pop world these days, too. Anyway, its free improv for me...

Although... the thought of Brotzmann doing something with some of the festive ditties I've been forced to endure in the office this week has a certain attraction

[Beef Oven!]

Thanks duncan for some very interesting links

[Quarky]

One of the things I always liked about jass was the fact that its practitioners could wring new meaning out of pop tunes: extracting gold from dross, you might say.
For example I found this linked from the Boards of Canada forum which interested me - Donny McCaslin doing a version of one of BOC's epics:

Well I'm still wondering what Tenor Freak found interesting about McCaslin's version - extracting gold from dross? It seems to stick fairly closely to the original, but obviously the drumming is an "addition".

[teamsaint]

I would like to add another dimension to this topic and that is that black popular music is far superior to white artists and the music of Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, etc easily converts in to jazz and will continue to do so because of it's quality. Not5 so sure about Rap, mind. Having seen the likes of Earth , Wind and Fire, Al Green and Chic perform in the last few years, these are genuine musicians and frequently include jazz musicians in their ranks too. Compare and contrast with Artic Monkeys or Oasis who got lucky with little real talent.

Well, a couple if interesting points there.
Black pop far superior to white? surely, if there is something to be drawn out here, its that black american pop (such as the acts you mention) is much closer to american jazz, and feeds more directly off it? Any other "better/worse" comparison is nonsense.
As for Oasis, (love them or loathe them) having just got lucky,well they certainly had a knack for a "Rock Anthem", and if it was THAT easy to do or manufacture........

[Ian Thumwood]

Team Saint

You are right about these bands feeding off jazz but I think historically Black popular music has always had this connection. White rock music seems to be more about making a statement than looking at how the music is assembled. In the better acts, the music seems much more sophisticated and put together with more thought. With jazz musicians looking for something interesting to hang their improvising hat on, rock has been a let down and hasn't afforded the kind of repertoire that popular music of 30s /40s /50s produced.

I feel it is also interesting how certain "funk" grooves get absorbed by jazz musicians with the result that it becomes part of the mainstream. In 1960's critics would have cried "jazz rock" yet I can pick records out of my collection such as Dave Holland's quintet and hear rhythms inspired by hip hop, played by an acoustic line up and seemingly now resembling straight ahead jazz. It might be worthwhile arguing that pop material may have a questionable role to play in jazz but the kind of grooves played (especially from Black popular culture) will eventually be absorbed by jazz musicians who are intrigued by this aspect of music. Of all types of jazz I suppose I like Jazz Rock / Fusion the least yet elements of Sly, James Brown, Prince, etc, etc have all now deeply embedded themselves in jazz since the day6s of Herbie Hancock's Head hunters. Perhaps it is now so embedded that we no longer recognise the influence and why Bruce might pose the question at the head of this thread.


What I feel has been important in 20th century is that this was the first century when the significant and influential developments weren't limited to Europe and African~American music had a huge part to play in this.