Jazz bargains - CDs, DVDs etc.

[Dave2002]

You can post your bargain discoveries relating to jazz here.

I'll start with Jimmy Smith - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kind-Smith-J...ds=smith+jimmy

Under a tenner for 10 CDs as mentioned before at http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...702#post339702

There is also a 4 CD set by Membran - Back at the Chicken Shack - also under a tenner. Reasonable, though I think there is some slight distortion - perhaps inevitable given the ages of the recordings.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

there are some stunning download bargains as well at the big river

Ornette

a list of them here

[Dave2002]

Perhaps marginal, but there's some good piano playing by Andre Previn here - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jazz-Recordi...ds=previn+jazz - under a tenner.

Probably a bit too conventional for me - reminiscent of easy listening and American hotel bar pianos at times, though Andre was a great pianist.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Perhaps marginal, but there's some good piano playing by Andre Previn here - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jazz-Recordi...ds=previn+jazz - under a tenner.

Probably a bit too conventional for me - reminiscent of easy listening and American hotel bar pianos at times, though Andre was a great pianist.

I've mentioned this a lot before but the recent Proper box set. ..4cds....of early Wayne Shorter, from Vee Jay to Blakey, is very good value. Hugely enjoyable.

I also picked up a two CD set of Quincy Jones' hip all star jazz sides from the fifties on JC...with Stitt, Lucky Thompson, Art Farmer, Cannon etc. Very nifty for the over 60 thrifty.

Isn't the EU copyR law soon to change? Will UKIP form a trad band in protest?

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

Bluesnik

I believe that the copyright law change is due within te next year with the rule being put back to 75 years.

My Dad has been snapping up alot of the recordings being released by Avid which are similarly alleged to have been remastered. In many instances, the sound seems pretty thin to my ears. Curiously, these records are generally billed as "Three Classic albums" and whilst there are some very good recordings, most of the records seem very oscure indeed with alot of the quality quite erratic. The best efforts seem to include the more familiar selections and the set by Gene Ammons, for example, is a good buy in my estimation. The range of material is quite intriguing and the artists that my Dad has acquired tend to reflect his taste from the likes of Eddie Condon and Pee Wee Russell through to mainstreamers like Sweets Edison, Roy Eldrige, Ruby Braff, Buck Clayton, etc, etc. I think he has bought a few Modern Jazz efforts too by the likes of Barney Kessell and a few others of that ilk . Some of the records are pretty mediocre. There is a selection of Mel Powell recordings where he strays in to Tristano territory and the results were bland at best.

It is a very curious scenario business ploughing through these records made in the 1940's and early 60's. I never appreciated just how many recordings seemed to get made in this era and you can quickly appreciate why some albums have been considered classics. The Avid re-issues have been a startling revelation insofar that I have never realised just how ordinary so many records of that era were. This applies to all forms of jazz whether Chicago, mainstream, modern or big band. A few of these issues do include gems yet it is difficult to get away from the impression that some sessions were hastily assembled with tunes being limited to 12-bar blues or contrafacts. On top of this, it's quite staggering to realise how prolific musicians I can't abide were at that time. Ruby Braff, for example, must have lived in recording studios and appears on a host of other records in the Avid series as well as his own offerings.

The cover art is also quite fascinating. Some of the efforts look like a newspaper clip of a musician was stuck on against a plain background.

The 1950's have often been portrayed as a golden era and it is easy to be seduced by the masterpieces from that era by the likes of Ellington, Basie, Miles, Armstrong, Coltrane, Mingus, Cannonball, etc, etc and to rattle off any number of prestige, Riverside or Blue Note records which might be considered essential in any collection. Listening to the Avid selections it is pretty apparent that the better material was very much the tip of the iceberg and that even some quite reputable artists were prone to churn out some pretty average efforts.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Like you I've listened to a lot of the Avids. What struck me was how routine and stale a lot of the material was on Granz"s Verve sessions. Ok, a lot were glorified jams but the recycling of jaded standards, Lady be good et al, even by the mid/late 50s, really gets tedious even if the players very often rise above it.

Prestige is slagged off for cheapskate dates but Norm is supposed to be made of better stuff.

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

Bluensik

Thats not a reasonable comment. I think I've probably heard about 15-20 of the Avid CDs. I don't know how many there are in total but I would suggest that that is a fair representation. You can also click on quite a few of the samples of Amazon too where you can find efforts by the likes of pedstrian jazz musicians such as Dave Pell, Doug Raney, Tal Farlow, Barney Kessell and Herb Ellis. (I've heard the latter two complete.) Even some more illustrious names such as Wes Montgomery are presented by very early recordings that are far from representing the artist's essential work. Whilst some of the records in the series can rightly be claimed to be "classic" and in cases like the Art Pepper disc to represent some of the finest jazz of the era, the quality control at Avid is such that a pile of really mediocre (and unremastered ) music is being re-issued, sometimes for the first time of CD. This includes radio transcriptions which, in themselves, can hardly be classed as fully considered LP's. In my opinion, alot of these recordings make little bearing on anyone's understanding of jazz and are most likely a cynical exercise to flog rubbish to a gauche jazz audience who will lap on anything. Stick the words "classic" or "long lost" or bill the disc as the "....sessions" and you will alway get your Trevor Cooper types reliving their youth and parting with their pension monies. Even at the budget price (especially with so much music available of Youtibe), even the £4.50 price is expensive and none of the revenue gets to the artists - assuming they are still alive / not dosed up to the max in some old person's home. At best, it gives the oldies something to listen to whilst they are indoors doing jigsaw puzzles or watching "Cash in the attic" on TV. Some of the Avid discs are more "hip replacement" that hip!!

As I said, the more famous titles represent the best from this catalogue but it is probably a good bet that you are unlikely to find anything too significant amongst the negelcted material. Would you really consider "Sit down and relax with Jimmy Forrest" a classic? Some of the output is extremely obscure (Brad Gowans, Joe Bushkin, etc, etc) and hardly on anyone's "must have" list I would suggest. Several of the CD's are extremely difficult to listen to . The aforementioned Mel Powell records is a stinker and I speak as someone who loves his playing with Benny Goodman. I find Avid to be a real eye-opener in to how the fan's perception of recorded jazz has been distorted so that the LP era is looked at through rose-tinted glasses. There is nothing remotely "Classic" about some 3rd rate soloist running through over two hours of running over the changes of the Broadway songbook especially when the titles are bestowed with titles like "Relxain' with.." "Music for lowever by...." or "Such and such plays Kern / Berlin / Gershwin / Porter/ whatever." Would you really want to buy a number of small group recordings by trombone session man Urbie Green?

By and large, Avid are releasing a whole tranche of period pieces amongst which are some genuine gems. To me, 70% of the material they have released is average at best. Even some of the "Classic" discs like the Monk double CD (which I have) is a mixed bag of excellence and hastily put together recordings made by Prestige. listening to these avid CD's you immediuately appreciate just how much a quality label like Columbia "rescued" the likes of Miles Davis, Dave brubeck, etc and presented their music in a format that showed their artistry to the best advantage. You also appreciate just why a label like Blue Note was so loved by the fans. If you were in the States in the 1950's and wanted to snap up a jazz LP, I think that even in a halcyon year like 1959 the store would have been inundated with average and woeful recordings now long-since forgotten. The reason why some records are remember is because they were particularly great pieces of art. Avid have demonstrated that there was a far broader selection available with jazz records almost being produced for a MOR function as well as efforts by minor performers like Raney, Pell, Kesell, Ellis , etc.

For what it is worth, I would tend to agree with your comments about Verve which was always a very "safe" label and it's roster of artists reflected that. Oscar Peterson is a prime example. Technically amazing but his reocrds always sound the same and he was extremely dull to listen to. There are some great Verve recordings however. (Woody Herman's "Hey!, Heard the heard" is fabulous and the "Back-to-back" effort by Hodges and Ellingto is in the top 5 of great small group jazz.) It was funny how, when the label was reactivated in the 1990's they featured some amazing recordings by the likes of Betty Carter, Abbey Lincoln, Joe Henderson and Shirley Horn.

[Dave2002]

For what it is worth, I would tend to agree with your comments about Verve which was always a very "safe" label and it's roster of artists reflected that. Oscar Peterson is a prime example. Technically amazing but his reocrds always sound the same and he was extremely dull to listen to.

I only heard Oscar Peterson live once, in Boulogne. As I recall it, he was rather exciting live - or at least not dull, so did he tend to be duller in recording? OTOH, he did feature quite frequently in some TV shows on UK television, and I did feel he was less interesting in them.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Ian, I think the point you may be missing is that there is a market for a lot of this stuff. Just listen to JRR on any given week. People of a certain age and background get off on Herb Ellis...ck the nerd and needy guitar sites. I got bored to death chez 'Erb after the first side but I am an angry old Trotskyista in search of revolution and rare Bill Dixon kicks. And Shostakovich, my current ear stuffing.

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

Bluesnik

Avid is all part of the cynic Capitalist conspiracy to get the pensioners to spunk their winter fuel allowance on the kind of dross they probably turned their noses up at 60 years ago.


Dave 2002
I've seen Oscar Peterson too albeit he was only playing with one hand and had to rely on Ulf Walkenius to provide the harmony on the guitar. Not too memorable for the music and more notable for Peterson's grouchy attack on the press corps assembled with their cameras' a the foot of the stage. Shame he wasn't more like Michel Pettruciani who told blue jokes in between the pieces in his solo recital ! Never a dull moment with him around.

I suppose if you listen to some of the crap that Avid are re-issuing, Oscar Peterson might be considered exciting. He was part of my introduction to jazz piano and my Dad (never really a true believer in Peterson) bought me a few records by him to encourage my interest in jazz piano. Even at the age of between 14-17 I was a bit suspicious (just as I was of Stan Getz and Dave Brubeck too, for that matter) and preferred to stick to Earl Hines, Thelonious Monk and then Hampton Hawes.

If I'm honest, Peterson could be ok as a solo artist. There is a good duet album with Milt Jackson called "Ain't but a few of us left" where the pianist has to work for his corn wiothout the benefit of a bass / drummer / guitarist. As a "group" playing behind the horns, I'm afraid that Peterson is like a bucket of cold water and sufficates most of what is going on in the front line. That said, when I saw Peterson, I did stay awake. I've fallen asleep to Tord Gustavsen on two occasions and slept all the way through a triple piano trio recital in Vienne about 7-8 years ago. All three trios sounded like Brad Mehldau and I have struggled with BM ever since then! I also fell asleep during a solo recital by a Italian / Turkish pianist who made Gustavsen sound lie Jerry Lee Lewis in comparison.

For me, the pianists are the true heroes of jazz. I love jazz piano yet there are a number of pianists who I do admit to struggling with. Check out someone like Jason Moran and you will never want to hear Peterson again.

Cheers

Ian

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Watch what you are saying about pensioners, Ian. I could have you arrested for hate crimes and locked in a damp cellar listening to Jerry Lee Lewis for 50 years. Or Keef Jarrett's grunty c&w sides.

BN.

[Dave2002]

Ian

I saw Peterson before his later illnesses, and he had use of both hands then. I recall he was better live than on his slots on the TV programmes., with playing which seemed to me to fit your descriptions. Perhaps I'm not so keen on jazz piano, though Art Tatum can be fun in recordings. I was young when he died, so didn't hear him live. Ellington was good, but I primarily remember him as a band leader and composer rather than a pianist. I'll look out for some of your suggestions.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

utterly indispensable Ellington

free on youtube!

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

utterly indispensable Ellington

free on youtube!

I've got the Blanton/Webster band box set which restores my sanity whenever I hear a politician say "hardworking".


Your point about Utube is a good one. I've downloaded Mal Waldron's complete career and Gigi Gryces'. No need to shoplift in HMVs again.


BN.

[burning dog]

I'd like to reward hardworking Musical Couples. Shirley and Cootie, Dinah and George, Betty and Jimmy, Ted and Ted.