What jazz is about and what it isn't

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

[QUOTE=cloughie;320662]Lester Bowie plays David Bowie would be an interesting sound. I always think its a shame that genres in music have become so polarised. Back in the late sixties so much came together without boundaries.

Lester Bowie did The Platters. AND Dexter did a stunning version of First Time ever I saw your Face. But Grant Green doing the Beatles...on Bluenote? MWFTMF as tbe young people say.

BN.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

now that is what i call an album!

Grant Green (guitar); Hank Mobley (tenor saxophone); Larry Young (organ); Elvin Jones (drums).

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

now that is what i call an album!

DEF does not improve with age! Unlike my ultra rare Coltrane Plays Motown, where John and the lads do Heatwave and Mickeys
Monkey...to die for.

BN.

[burning dog]

[burning dog]

This bloke can play a bit!

[Quarky]

Oddball

Thanks for digging out that clip. I'm not sure that I agree with your comment. The problem I have with Britten is that his music smacks so much of the Establishment. Even though he may have had quite liberal ideas, the music seems to be weighted down by his straight-laced approach. It is almost as if his music has a pronounced accident like the old BBC radio presenters.

I'd like to think that someone like Britten was savvy about jazz but whilst I like the early 20th century classical composers more than any other era, Britten seems the least aware of what was happening with music in the States.

OK Ian, you are probably correct imv.

Trying not to put my foot in it this time, I found two broadcasts on R3 this week highlighted an important but obvious fact. Firstly Tom Watts quintet at the Elgar room ( http://www.royalalberthall.com/visit...ink/elgar.aspx ) - a late night prom - Tom features regularly at the Savoy ballroom so I gather, and Secondly Jazz on Three - Highlights from the Manchester Jazz Festival ( http://bandonthewall.org/about/food-and-drink/ ). Both Jazz, but very different from each other. The obvious and important difference is the audience. I should imagine the audience at the Elgar room were classically informed and enjoying sipping glasses of a good wine, whereas the Manchester crowd were out and out jazzniks, and happy with Newcastle Brown, or whatever the tipple is up there.

I guess it's always been that way. Musicians will either adjust their style and content to suit their audience, or alternatively if they don't adjust , then they have to find a suitable venue and audience to suit their music.

So I can quite imagine that a (weak) Jazz performance based in some way on Britten's music will draw an audience, if the audience is broadly classically informed. But a Jazz musician needing inspiration, but not needing an "angle" will probably look elsewhere.

[Tenor Freak]

Righty ho then mofos try this - it's ACE and it was a Lennon/McCartney tune - Grant does a spectacular job on this (really)

I first listened to this because I could not believe that someone had the audacity to attempt a cover version of one of the shibboleths of modern music - but when I did check it out I found a refreshingly good version recorded before the original gained its accretion of BS. (BTW I do enjoy the original - I have always loved Sgt Pepper, ever since I was a nipper)

[Ian Thumwood]

There was a wide selection of music on JRR last night yet the track that stood out for me was by Fate Marable's band which, I suppose, fits quite nicely in to this debate. I must admit that although I have read a lot about this band which seems to have enjoyed a great reputation in new Orleans, I was not aware that they had ever made any recordings. As soon as I saw the play list I was bery curious to hear this track and with Hampshire losing the cricket at Edbaston yesterday, I managed to turn the radio over to hear JRR live and not on I-player for once.

From a historical point of view, it is good to be able to hear Marable's band yet the track seemed to have very little to do with jazz. To my ears, it seemed quite old-fashioned even for the first half of the 1920's and by 1927 this would have sounded hopelessly out of date. The tune appears to have been written as late as 1922 even if it seems like something from much earlier. I don't know who it's composer Roy Bargy was. The only connection to jazz came from the brass instruments and even with the great Zutty Singleton, the music didn't swing.

Marable's orchestra seems like a show band who employed future jazz musicians. I wonder how typical this chart was and whether Farable himself would have considered his music to have been the same as King Oliver's or Jelly Roll Morton's. Like a lot of the music from that era, it seemed a bit clockwork in it's performance and this makes you wonder just how "natural" this performance was and just how different they would have sounded on board one of the steamboats. The circumstances of the recording are also interesting. I love the idea of the band stepping off the boat to record these two tracks and the speculation as to what element of their repertoire should be put down for posterity. As they had such a great reputation, it is odd that they never made any other recordings but I suppose Marable made enough money from playing up and down the river. Seeing as he died in 1947 aged 57, I wonder how his music changed with the Swing Era?

So many of the "territory" band seem to have either reached a recording studio or just missed cutting a record by a fine slither of fate. I suppose that this is part of the appeal of the bands which either never seemed to have a national following or recorded too early to have had a greater bearing on the recorded history of jazz. To my ears, Marable didn't sound like he was playing jazz and I suppose his orchestra would have had a wide range of music that it performed from light classicl works to marches, etc. Strictly speaking, the band is historically important for kick-starting so many careers even if the visit to the studio resulted in a least one track that was only remotely connected to jazz. It is funny to think that had jazz stopped in about 1925, it would have only left behind a very small number of really great recordings (JRM, NORK, King Oliver, maybe Wolverines, etc) and a wider collection of dance band and novelty recordings with isolated breaks / solos.

Fascinating to hear this record and a good call by whoever requested. I am glad someone requested this! However, I wonder if we solely had the records to go by and not with testiment of some of New Orleans' finest, whether Marable would have been totally forgotten. I am guessing that "Pianoflage" was th better of the two tracks.

The odd thing about Marable is that he was also related to the late be- bop drummer Larance Marable as well as being an inspiration for the composer George Russell to follow a career in jazz. Strange how there are these connections between modern / contemporary jazz and musicians from a far earlier vintage.

[Alyn_Shipton]

Ian, Roy Bargy composed mainly "novelty" piano music. From memory "Kitten on the Keys" was his, so he's in a similar vein to people like Zez Confrey. I doubt Marable had much say in what they recorded, but both tracks sound rather stilted. However, compare it to early Paul Whiteman (Whispering etc) and you can see approximately what he was aiming at. 1924 is really early, and March (when Pianoflage was made) is 6 months before Armstrong joins Fletcher Henderson. Listen to Henderson's Sud Bustin' Blues or War Horse Mama, made the same week as Marable's discs, and they're not a million miles apart. I don't think it's wise to look for a modern concept of "swing" in records from this very early period of jazz history. Zutty doesn't "swing" much on the hot sevens, especially when all he was able to play was chime cymbals and woodblocks. Marable must have been doing something right, because Jimmy Blanton's summer job during his schooldays was playing in his band in the 30s, and he's one of the swingingest players ever...

[Serial_Apologist]

Thought people might be interested in this new guitar trio, whom I am very much looking foward to seeing tonight at the Amersham Arms in New Cross. They remind me of what the 1970s group Gilgamesh might have sounded like had they had Alan Holdsworth on lead guitar rather than Phil Lee, and Colin McKenzie in place of Hugh Hopper, but the harmonic thinking in the lead material is very much in the same vein. This is rather a long link so I hope I copy it OK:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gG_dpMdoWs&utm_source=SECollective+supporters&utm_campaign=7223d2a7d4-RSS

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

great clip S_A please do tell us about the gig ....

[Serial_Apologist]

great clip S_A please do tell us about the gig ....

It was quite well attended, though I guess the band had brought along a fair section of its retinue. They played one set lasting just over an hour, and the words coming most immediately on everyone's tongue were amazing execution and beauty of technique, though at the same time one had heard sufficient because it was quite a hard listen, very much technique-based, not a lot of personality or warmth as such on display, though one imagines those will come, as far as this particular genre will let it. One thing everyone said was how remarkable that 3 previously unknown young guys had come up with a sound so distinctively worked out down to finest details, which must have involved a huge amount of rehearsing in one or another of their domiciles; and they're going on tour on October!

There's a couple more clips attached to play linked to the above one to be found on here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gG_dpMdoWs&list=PL540YlP06deC2Zt4RbrzhfKCj49jUmN__&index=1

Or this link if above doesn't work try:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gG_dpMdoWs&utm_source=SECollective+supporters&utm_campaign=7223d2a7d4-RSS_S

Oh well, seems to come out with the same one

[Ian Thumwood]

Alyn

Thanks for the information. I will have to follow up the leads.

S-A

I quite like this guitar trio even if the selection on Youtube sounds more jazz centred than you had suggested. They have a nice clean, contemporary sound and I think tie in quite nicely with the way that a lot of the current jazz seems to be going with a more mellow approach and the busy style of drumming that seems to be taking it's cues from outside the music. I've never heard of these musicians yet I would enjoy listening to them play a set.

It's funny the way that some younger jazz musicians are taking the music these days as you could almost lump this group in with your Robert Glaspers with the combination of smoothness and sophistication. I've been listening to the new Gerald Clayton CD and this has the same kind of "refreshed Retro" approach. Not quite sure about this disc as it doesn't compare with the live set I heard him give last month where his trio was augmented by Logan Richardson. The latter is on this disc but seems largely hidden within the under-featured horn section. You can sense that , amongst the "movers and shakers" in jazz at the moment, one branch seems to be offering a smoothed-out version of post-bop where there may even be references to contempoary pop thrown in (thinking about the likes of Glasper, Parlato, etc) with other musicians seeking a more strident approach which has well and truly kicked away the last vestiges of playing on changes. I would include Vijay Iyer, Craig Taborn and David Binney in the latter. Of course, there are other options too but this seems to be the current trend and I would pitch S-A's trio in to the former.

This week has been quite curious from a jazz perspective. I was fascinated to hear the Marable track and then had been reading about Kenny Wheeler's project with a vocal .group. Contrasting this with the guitar trio, it's fascinating that all three groups generally fall under the remit of jazz even though there is very little similar between them!

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Alyn

Thanks for the information. I will have to follow up the leads.

S-A

I quite like this guitar trio even if the selection on Youtube sounds more jazz centred than you had suggested. They have a nice clean, contemporary sound and I think tie in quite nicely with the way that a lot of the current jazz seems to be going with a more mellow approach and the busy style of drumming that seems to be taking it's cues from outside the music. I've never heard of these musicians yet I would enjoy listening to them play a set.

It's funny the way that some younger jazz musicians are taking the music these days as you could almost lump this group in with your Robert Glaspers with the combination of smoothness and sophistication. I've been listening to the new Gerald Clayton CD and this has the same kind of "refreshed Retro" approach. Not quite sure about this disc as it doesn't compare with the live set I heard him give last month where his trio was augmented by Logan Richardson. The latter is on this disc but seems largely hidden within the under-featured horn section. You can sense that , amongst the "movers and shakers" in jazz at the moment, one branch seems to be offering a smoothed-out version of post-bop where there may even be references to contempoary pop thrown in (thinking about the likes of Glasper, Parlato, etc) with other musicians seeking a more strident approach which has well and truly kicked away the last vestiges of playing on changes. I would include Vijay Iyer, Craig Taborn and David Binney in the latter. Of course, there are other options too but this seems to be the current trend and I would pitch S-A's trio in to the former.

This week has been quite curious from a jazz perspective. I was fascinated to hear the Marable track and then had been reading about Kenny Wheeler's project with a vocal .group. Contrasting this with the guitar trio, it's fascinating that all three groups generally fall under the remit of jazz even though there is very little similar between them!

I think it was Monk who said " who knows where jazz is going...to hell in a handcart?" BUT Ive been listening to two superb things this week, Wayne Shorters 2006 set at the Barbican and the early Wayne Proper box set. A remarkable continuity even allowiing for the greater maturity etc. Make of this what you will for progress.

BN.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I think it was Monk who said " who knows where jazz is going...to hell in a handcart?" BUT Ive been listening to two superb things this week, Wayne Shorters 2006 set at the Barbican and the early Wayne Proper box set. A remarkable continuity even allowiing for the greater maturity etc. Make of this what you will for progress.

BN.

And before the shouting starts check out "The Albatross" on the box set...timeless.


BN.