What jazz is about and what it isn't

[Ian Thumwood]

I'm not too familiar with Britten's work. Years ago I did hear a string quartet perform a chamber piece by Britten which surprised me yet the stuff that I have heard ("War Requeim", the Peter Peirs stuff, excerpts from Peter Grimes, Young Person's Guide, guitar nocturn, etc) have not struck a chord with me. For me, it is too divorced from jazz and lacks the harmonic, rhythmic or structural elements which usually switch jazz musicians on. It is easy to appreciate by the likes of Bach or Debussy appeal or to understand the fun element within Rossini that Mike Westbrook has picked up on. Britten is one of those composers that seems too removed from what jazz is about even if you considered the stuff that John Surman has recorded which also picks up of folk elements too.

Bluesnik might be interested to know that Richie Bierach has recorded Bartok's "Microcosmos" and has issued numerous records of reinterpretations of classical themes from Biber to Mompou. The "Sunday Songs" album from about 29 years ago was one that I have always been fascinated by but he does choose the likes of Chopin preludes and some Debussy too which offer obvious avenues for the jazz musician. Bierach is a brilliant player and very switched on harmonically.

[ahinton]

Varese a jolly good fellow

Indeed - or, as I first heard it in respect of his earlier compatriot's late sonatas for cello and piano, "Fauré's a jolly good cello".

Which nobody can deny.

[Quarky]

A little research on Google shows Britten had dabbled with Jazz at various points in his career.
"Jazz-Man" seems to have something of the genuine Jazz ethic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drv158EbaFM

[Serial_Apologist]

A little research on Google shows Britten had dabbled with Jazz at various points in his career.
"Jazz-Man" seems to have something of the genuine Jazz ethic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drv158EbaFM

W...ell

The last of the set of songs from "On This Island", settings of Auden from 1936, does a Weill type of thing on a Foxtrot, but connections to jazz of that time? I don't think so.

[Ian Thumwood]

Oddball

Thanks for digging out that clip. I'm not sure that I agree with your comment. The problem I have with Britten is that his music smacks so much of the Establishment. Even though he may have had quite liberal ideas, the music seems to be weighted down by his straight-laced approach. It is almost as if his music has a pronounced accident like the old BBC radio presenters.

I'd like to think that someone like Britten was savvy about jazz but whilst I like the early 20th century classical composers more than any other era, Britten seems the least aware of what was happening with music in the States. Composers like Ravel, Milhaud or even Martinu seemed to have a better appreciation - in the case of Milhaud I believe he was an avid collector of jazz records too. I have heard some music by Tippett who borrowed old spirituals for inspiration and, whilst better than Britten, again I don't feel the results were particularly jazzy. Probably the most jazz-aware against the British composers of that time was Constant Lambert whose demise mirrored many a jazz musician.

It's difficult to put your finger on it as to what it is exactly that seems incapable of being transformed in to credible jazz. Britten is probably the most obvious person I would find it hard to enjoy being adapted but i would feel equally aghast if the same treatment was dished out on the likes of Elvis, Abba or Elton John. The worst would probably have to be Andrew Lloyd Webber. It's amazing how, despite their relative success in a commercial music world, jazz musicians have tended to shun their music as a whole. (I know Cyrus Chestnut has recorded an album of Elvis tunes.) Most pop fans would consider Elton John's piano playing as very good and I had a interesting discussion with a work colleague who played in a rock band and couldn't believe that Elton John was considered to be extremely corny. As far as I am concerned, this music can't be redeemed and there is not even the hope of a Coltrane -like salvation as was the case with the tune from Mary Poppin's. It does make you wonder which is the stronger distraction, the poor quality of the music as a vehicle for credible jazz or the naff cultural package the music carries with it. I suppose it is probably a bit of both. Even the kind of musical mash-up that someone like Willem Breuker could serve up would not save Lloyd Webber even if a pastiche of Britten / Peers could have found itself creeping in to a WB Kollectief performance as nearly every other style of music did at one point or another!

[burning dog]

Abba are not beyond hope....

Not "Jazz" admittedly

[Ian Thumwood]

Burning Dog

I'm not too familar with ABBA and didn't recognise the sample there. However, I'm not convinced that the Fugee's track would be an improvement!

Ian

[burning dog]

If I had to play an Abba or Elton as "Jazz" (prefer neither) I'd plump for the Abba, they can be reduced to a vamp, and aren't clunky like the Saint of Vicarage Road's offerings.

There's an "Elton Way" leading into Watford

On a more serious note, very disappointed with the jazz offerings at various Art centres Around The South, as they say on Meridian News. There is a tendency to try to attract a crossover Classical and World Music audience, not that jazz shouldn't embrace other music but this appears to be for marketing reasons. The crossover appeal used to be provided by near Jazz crooning, often featuring Trevors Pin-Up.

[MrGongGong]

Abba are not beyond hope....

Not "Jazz" admittedly

and

[Serial_Apologist]

and

The Kleenex Liberation Front??

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

The Kleenex Liberation Front??

So, not to be sneezed at?

BN.

[cloughie]

Burning Dog

I'm not too familar with ABBA and didn't recognise the sample there. However, I'm not convinced that the Fugee's track would be an improvement!

Ian

The Fugees messed up a great Roberta Flack track. I would have thought both ABBA and Elton John had some strong enough tunes to take a good jazzing!

[burning dog]

Jazz musicians are (rightly) not often drawn to Pop songs that are favoured by the rock cognisenti.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXRsRo6inTM

I doubt if Mr Bowie would have covered many Arctic Monkeys or Elbow toons.

PS

PLAYLIST An ALW in there!!!! but against that a straight and effective version of a Spice Girls hit


The Birth of the Blues Lester Bowie Brass Fantasy
Next Lester Bowie Brass Fantasy
Two Become One Lester Bowie Brass Fantasy
Don't Cry for Me Argentina Lester Bowie Brass Fantasy
Beautiful People Lester Bowie Brass Fantasy
In the Still of the Night Lester Bowie Brass Fantasy
Notorious Thugs Lester Bowie Brass Fantasy
Nessum Dorma Lester Bowie Brass Fantasy
If You Don't Know Me By Now Lester Bowie Brass Fantasy

[cloughie]

Jazz musicians are (rightly) not often drawn to Pop songs that are favoured by the rock cognisenti.

Lester Bowie plays David Bowie would be an interesting sound. I always think its a shame that genres in music have become so polarised. Back in the late sixties so much came together without boundaries.

[burning dog]

Lester Bowie plays David Bowie would be an interesting sound. I always think its a shame that genres in music have become so polarised. Back in the late sixties so much came together without boundaries.

True and the Jazz purists are often guilty but I find a lot of the Rock crowd these days even more insular. In the late sixties blues and trad soul/gospel was the common ground.