it just is not Jazz and it is ignorance or deception to make such a claim

[handsomefortune]

my prescription:

cut out all 'unjazz': 'aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw mammy how i love ya, dear ol' mammy'

replace with the finest jazz/blues/poetry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6bKgljhvR0

some histories are hardly worth returning to, as they only emphasise the exaggerated look of captivity, the stylised look of submission...there it is, there it is

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Amen to that. I recently stumbled over a film of James Baldwin and Dick Gregory in London in 1969 at the W. Indian Student Centre talking about black identity....Its now on Utube. Totally Brilliant.

A time, and rage, long lost.

BN.

[handsomefortune]

Gigs: Jazz and the Cabaret Laws in New York City (Routledge Studies in Law, Society and Popular Culture)

a snip at £85.00 via amazon .... that price'll keep the riff raff out.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

not jazz but i like it ...

[eighthobstruction]

not jazz but i like it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqMIKc3D4GI

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Cabaret...et law and order/ decency.

75% of New York's police drug squad were fired in the 1970s for corruption! Ckout the Frank Lucas case. Made into a so so film with Denzil Washington.

BN.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

"The New York police had snatched my cabaret card and I couldn't work the clubs any more except with [Charles] Mingus who used to hire me under an assumed name. [He can be heard already moving between tonal centers on Mingus's record 'Pithecanthropus Erectus' in the '50s.] The thing that saved my life was a Jackie McLean Fan Club started in 1958 by a guy named Jim Harrison. I didn't have a big name or anything but he collected dues and he'd rent a hall once a month and present me in concert."

from here an interview with Jackie McLean ...

now that is jazz [and i like it]

[handsomefortune]

this isn't jazz, but it's an impressive response to bullying behavior http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21462085

[Alyn_Shipton]

No doubt you will all mount your high horses again because a listener has requested a track by Richard Rodney Bennett and Claire Martin on this week's JRR. (Actually when this programme was put together we were unaware of the JLU special, but RRB was president of the Budleigh Salterton Jazz Club and this is a request from the club.) In my personal experience, Richard was a remarkable musician. I only encountered him in a classical context as a player. (He wrote for our local youth orchestra in the early 70s). But I later interviewed him for the liner notes to his 2CD set of solo piano music by Gershwin and Kern, and he was extremely knowledgeable about jazz. He had a phenomenal memory for what he'd heard - we spent ages discussing Ellis Larkins' chord changes from when we both used to go and hear him at the Carnegie Tavern in NYC. Although there may be those contributing to these boards who have doubts about whether Dame Cleo Laine is or is not jazz, and may also feel that to give her air space is "ignorant or deceptive", her view is that RRB was a brilliant and sophisticated jazz accompanist whose harmonic ear was second to none.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

It's about time we had some Matt Monroe on JRR.

BN.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

play it for what it is; don't nick limited time for Jazz to play it; play more essential jazz .... the odd request is neither here nor there ... whole programmes and we will find we can't move for it in r3's search for 'accessibility' etc etc ... and it is a pretence to think that such music making is Jazz of the sort played by Trish Clowes and other young British Jazz artists .... many of whom get no air time at all .... why should we endorse this stuff as jazz when serious jazz artists struggle to be heard and paid ... put it on r2 if it is popular, put it in another slot if it must be r3 ... but watch out for the krassikal fight back ...

[Alyn_Shipton]

Ah, so there's more essential and less essential jazz. Interesting thought. Thing is, one person's essential jazz might be another's Matt Monroe.

[Stephen Whitaker]

play it for what it is; don't nick limited time for Jazz to play it; play more essential jazz .... the odd request is neither here nor there ... whole programmes and we will find we can't move for it in r3's search for 'accessibility' etc etc ... and it is a pretence to think that such music making is Jazz of the sort played by Trish Clowes and other young British Jazz artists .... many of whom get no air time at all .... why should we endorse this stuff as jazz when serious jazz artists struggle to be heard and paid ... put it on r2 if it is popular, put it in another slot if it must be r3 ... but watch out for the krassikal fight back ...

Trish Clowes the BBC New Generation artist's recent performances include a recreation of the album ‘Barbara Song’ by saxophonist/composer Barbara Thompson, which is a collection of Kurt Weill tunes specially arranged for Barbara to play with string quartet. The composers/arrangers featured include Mike Westbrook, Mike Gibbs, Barbara Thompson and.......Richard Rodney Bennett.

It's not a good idea to present opinions and ahistorical howlers as facts.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I have developed a "Jazzducer"...this sends 250K volts back up the line everytime a R3 presenter plays a "nearly" jazz record...or an accordian... or a banjo. Or Dame Cleo Lane.

I would REALLY hate to have to use this...

BN.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

well your howler is my selected out of context and that kind of tit for tat goes nowhere

and yes Alyn we could afford to be a broad church as the brothers used to say but not now when we are subjected to pretty low level playlist programming for jazz; and it was getting better .... so i make no apologies for drawing an obdurate distinction and sticking to it ... r3 is not the Third Programme nor anything like it, it is driven by peculiar notions of accessibility and is becoming risible ... Claire Martin and Richard Rodney Bennett are wonderful as cabaret music no doubt, but as Jazz it is risible .... r3 is indefensible these days as a serious channel for music ..

it is no use mocking the notion of essential, or deciding who can decide such things; we can and do .... we have a canonical attitude and despair of r3 for abandoning its public service obligation to maintain a clear and coherent sense of the art in music .... however difficult to listen to that may be ..... that is not elitist it is the highest form of populism .... how many of us as youngsters discovered serious music ... discovered that it was not weird to like Charlie Parker, Jackie McLean or Ornette Coleman in 1961 on the Third Programme .... if you palm off the Palm Court Orchestra and its derivatives as Jazz you take that away ...

put it on r2 why not? why r3? that is what this thread is about .... what is your problem with that?