The folk thing...................

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  • Ian Thumwood
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4223

    The folk thing...................

    I would generally consider myself to have a pretty broad range of musical taste although I think the only extends to music that is of artistic merit. However, there are a few idioms which I have a real blind spot for and one of those is folk music. I feel that as someone who loves history I should be more appreciative but there is something about it which is repellant. I think the music is transcends being nerdy. In some quarters you might argue that acoustic blues is a form of folk music and I could be convinced that a wider definition of the term could include the likes of Blind Lemon Jefferson in to this idiom. However, in the UK is seems to be associated with grim tales of dark, satanic mills or whimsical accounts of country maidens. Diddly-dee Irish folk music is even worse (even worse than Scottish bagpipes, imo ) and it is only a matter of adding a wash of synthesizers before you end up with the musical excrement that is Enja or the soundtrack to "Titanic." There is no excuse for producing something as dire as this albeit a different kind of "dire" to the music produced by my next target.

    I put in mind of a couple of issues to commence this thread. One of these is the fact that 1913 marks the centenary of the musical embarrassment that was Benjamin Britten. Given his unsavory predeliction for young boys, it's amazing his reputation as remained intact but his setting of English folk music is especially unforgivable. Britten achieved the unimaginable feat of producing music that is more embarrassing for most Brits than Gilbert & Sullivan. It's strange how other people's folk music always seems better. I love the stuff Bartok produced and the folky-themes of Janacek are cool. Even the likes of Gottschalk throwing in folk themes in some of his compositions is appealing. However, whenever most British composers utilise folk themes you are put in mind of being sick from school as a child and witnessing "The Spinners " on Pebble Mill. (When my sister was very small, she used to love The Spinners and cried one Christmas when their latest LP that she was given as a present transpired to enclose a record by Shirley Bassey - I think I would have cried too!! ) By and large, anything from the British Isles tend to sound embarrassing and it is only in the hands of a genius like Frederick Delius that you can forgive anyone to mining this seam although the likes of Vaughan Williams had a good go. Britten , however, makes you ashamed to be English in his dabbling with folk music. I suppose that BBC Radio 3 will be choc-a-bloc with Britten tributes in 2013 and we can expect JRR to be sacrificed at some later stage in exchange for "Peter Grimes."

    The other point I wanted to raise was that British jazz musicians have frequently borrowed heavily from folk music with mixed results. John Surman has made the idiom work whereas the likes of the late Michael Garrick seemed to stray too far into "hey-nonny-nonny" whimsy for my taste. I have never really heard American musicians tackle this reportoire which I suppose would have been too "white" or "square" to merit investigation. Curious then to hear the new Dave Douglas album which plugs into the very same British folk idiom as well as hymn music. The result was initially a bit of a shock and it took several plays before the content of the record made an impact. "Be still" is a very slow burn yet an extremely compelling album of contemporary post-bop jazz. Neither the jazz nor folk elements seem to concede to one another's integrity and the two idioms share an abrasive co-existence. I love the way that the singer's vocal's rub up against the more savvy harmonies laid down within the arrangements. The light and airy voice of Aoife O'Donovan is an inspired choice:-

    The official website of Aoife O'Donovan. The new album 'All My Friends' out now. tour dates, music, merch.



    I would have thought that the simplicity of the melodies and the propensity to use major triads and the resultant lack of harmonic colour would have prevented anyone making credible jazz out of this material. After repeated listening, the trumpeter has produced perhaps one of his strongest records and well as his most personal. The hymn tunes are wonderful and the setting of a simple melody like "Barbara Allen" puts this record in the same kind of category at Miles' "Sketches of Spain." The more I listen to this disc, the more impressive it seems. It also has a huge emotional clout, not only as the record consists of music performed at his mother's service but also due to the love and respect Douglas has accorded to these melodies.
  • johncorrigan
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 10409

    #2
    I suppose it depends what passes for 'folk' for you Ian, but here's one that I'm pretty certain was posted originally by Mr GlobalTruth and that I love to head back to - Chris Wood, great English folk singer and writer, never, it seems to me, afraid to try something new.
    Caesar (Chris Wood) from his new new album 'A Handmade Life' The Pin-Barrel Harp (Sharpsichord) is a sound-sculpture designed & built by Henry Dagg as an ac...


    ...and of course while we're on the subject of Chris, this great bit of folk/ world from Later a while back with the Imagined Village people.
    The Imagined Village perform Cold Haily Rainy Night on Later...With Jools Holland from 15th Feb 2008. The band includes Eliza & Martin Carthy, Chris Wood, Th...

    Comment

    • MrGongGong
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 18357

      #3
      Originally posted by johncorrigan View Post
      Imagined Village people.
      Are they a kind of Gay Boyband for people in Second Life ?

      Comment

      • Flosshilde
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 7988

        #4
        How exactly is Benjamin Britten a 'musical embarrassment'? Who is he embarrassing?

        Comment

        • johncorrigan
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 10409

          #5
          Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
          Are they a kind of Gay Boyband for people in Second Life ?
          - just got that one, MrGG.

          Comment

          • Treek

            #6
            The OP seems more concerned with interpretations and adaptations by 'classical' composers, than with Folk music itself.

            Can I suggest a short playlist;

            Airs & Graces - June Tabor
            Life & Limb - Martin Carthy & Dave Swarbrick
            Shearwater - Martin Carthy

            and for crossover into 'electric folk' -

            Live - Steeleye Span (especially the 14-min-plus 'Montrose')

            Some of my favourites, at least.....

            Comment

            • aka Calum Da Jazbo
              Late member
              • Nov 2010
              • 9173

              #7
              ................. whoever heard of horse music?

              "i aint never heard a horse sing"
              Last edited by aka Calum Da Jazbo; 07-01-13, 17:32.
              According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

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              • MrGongGong
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 18357

                #8
                Originally posted by aka Calum Da Jazbo View Post
                ................. whoever heard of horse music?
                conducter : Richard Lair (elephants specialist)Alan earnts andSaxophone : Ralph Thomas,Opor NorthgateIsan pin: Yodh WarongBass: Casey O'brienFiddle sound eff...


                or even

                Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

                Comment

                • Quarky
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 2672

                  #9
                  Yes, I have shared your blind-spots, particularly in regard to Folk music, since an early age. Ray Charles set me off on an alternative path.

                  But I think I am in the process of overcoming this aversion, if that is the right word. May I recommend extended relaxation sessions with Fiona Talkington, Verity Sharp, Lopa Kathari and Mary Anne Kennedy. They are all very lovely ladies, and I am sure will attend to all your audible requirements.

                  In regard to Benjamin Britten, I don't want to get into trouble with Mary Chambers, but Britten's sexual orientation (and social upbringing) does get in the way of many of his secular voice works, as far as I am concerned - for example his greatest work Peter Grimes. But he was a great composer.

                  Not sure what it is about folk that makes it difficult for Jazzbos but obviously no great emphasis on rhythm, and no blues singing or shouting - just natural "pleasing"(yuk!) voices. But I agree with you there may be a great deal of untapped potential for works which combine the two idioms. Anyway will give the link a listen, when I have finished listening to Lat's radio station!

                  Comment

                  • johncorrigan
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 10409

                    #10
                    Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                    Is that the full version, or has it been trunkated?

                    Comment

                    • Flosshilde
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 7988

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Oddball View Post
                      In regard to Benjamin Britten, I don't want to get into trouble with Mary Chambers, but Britten's sexual orientation (and social upbringing) does get in the way of many of his secular voice works, as far as I am concerned - for example his greatest work Peter Grimes. But he was a great composer.
                      Perhaps you should take your blinkers off. If a heterosexual composer was known for his (or her) sexual promiscuity would that put you off their work? & what social upbringing would a composer have to have for you to be able to enjoy their music?

                      Comment

                      • teamsaint
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 25225

                        #12
                        There's great stuff out there, like there is in any area of music , if you look for it.

                        i'm no dyed in the wool folkie, but modern British folk music does at least offer some energy, political comment, and plenty of people of all ages trying to do positive things with their music.
                        Much on offer makes modern Rock and roll look very lame.

                        here's a lovely piece.
                        Miranda Sykes solo at the Show of Hands concert at the Exeter Phoenix 22nd August 2012
                        I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

                        I am not a number, I am a free man.

                        Comment

                        • MrGongGong
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 18357

                          #13
                          Originally posted by teamsaint View Post
                          There's great stuff out there, like there is in any area of music , if you look for it.

                          i'm no dyed in the wool folkie, but modern British folk music does at least offer some energy, political comment, and plenty of people of all ages trying to do positive things with their music.
                          Much on offer makes modern Rock and roll look very lame.

                          here's a lovely piece.
                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPmAJMa8VcY
                          indeed
                          but tell me
                          what is it about it , sonically or contextually, that makes it "Folk" music ?
                          Is it by association ? (as the Bass player with SOH)
                          or

                          something else entirely ?

                          which is NOT a value judgement at all ........ it just occurred to me that if you had exactly the same performance in a "Jazz" context then people would consider it "Jazz" or even if she was in a "Rock" band etc etc

                          Comment

                          • cloughie
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2011
                            • 22182

                            #14
                            Back in the 60s I seem to remember folkies like Bob Dylan, Judy Collins, Joni Mitchell and Leonard Cohen - whatever beacame of them. Over here I remember Pentangle, Roy Harper, Michael Chapman, Eclection, Fairport Convention and their derivatives Steeleye Span and Albion Band - they rocked a bit - very good guitarists like Davy Graham - Al Stewart was a bit of a folkie too.

                            Comment

                            • aka Calum Da Jazbo
                              Late member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 9173

                              #15
                              t just occurred to me that if you had exactly the same performance in a "Jazz" context then people would consider it "Jazz" or even if she was in a "Rock" band etc etc
                              well some might suppose so , ... but like Moses - erroneously!




                              and no, not that either ...
                              According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

                              Comment

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